New Studio Design

Start your own studio thread here: Goals, plans, layouts, treatment, speakers, questions, queries, comments...
StudioJiimaan
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New Studio Design

#16

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sat, 2022-Jan-08, 19:21

Actually have considered that and drew it out....on another forum told that wouldn't work....so stuck as as possible to right top corner....

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#17

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sat, 2022-Jan-08, 19:22

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Soundman2020
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#18

Postby Soundman2020 » Sat, 2022-Jan-08, 21:09

Actually, none of your models are true "corner" control rooms. They are just copies of other conventional designs, from studios that are not your studio, and scaled down, turned sideways, or rotated 45°, to sort-of almost fit the space you have available. That's not the concept of a corner control room. As I mentioned before; you cannot just scale an existing design to fit your space.

None of the diagrams you are posting have the layout set up on the diagonal, which is the key principal for a corner control room. Take a closer look at what I posted, and you'll see that your diagrams don't look anything like it. They are all just conventional layouts, scaled and rotated, to one degree or another.

Here's another example of what a true corner control room looks like:

FrKCAUS-Corner-Control-Room.jpg


on another forum told that wouldn't work

Well, that simply isn't true. As you can see here, a properly done corner control room can get rather impressive acoustic response :

FrKCAUS-REW-FR-12-22k--1..3-FINAL.png

FrKCAUS-REW-WF-12-23k-FINAL.png

Those are the actual final acoustic response graphs from the room in the image above, after it was fully treated and tuned. As you can see, it most definitely "works"!

There are many ways to actually implement a "corner" design, as you can see from the two different examples I have posted above from designs I did for two very different clients: You can stretch it, or "squash" it to fit the space, and you can change the angles of the front and side walls to give yourself more space, or less space, as the need may be. Then, when that is done, you can design the acoustic treatment specifically for that space, and get very good results.

- Stuart -



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#19

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 01:34

So I have revised one more time....trying to keep best possible visibility can from control room (though will be using cameras where need)....plus easiest possible load in/out....maximum use of space....while getting best possible acoustic rooms that can....having listened to many on various forums....plus my own reading....and experience in studio....I think I have come up with suitable compromise....by moving control room to back wall....there is a partial wrap around double glass window that is positioned to look onto largest area of live room....a iso/vocal booth as well as drum/guitar room is included....plus providing access to storage/amp room/mechanical room (power supply) under stairway....as well as easy access to control room from both sides of....while maintaining a good flow to space as well as creating a cool vibe....various treatments on walls and ceilings as well as raised floor should help:


Image



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#20

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 02:29

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Soundman2020
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#21

Postby Soundman2020 » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 02:49

On the other hand, you could try a proper corner control room layout, since that would likely work out well for that space, rather than trying to invalidly copy some other studio that won't actually work, since you are attempting to scale it...


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#22

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 03:23

Actually it isn't a copy of some other studio....or rather control room....it was in a studio designed by Martin Pilchner that I almost bought (the title to the property was not clear so I had to walk away)....I was a client of Martin's....the control room was not immense but just the right size for a smaller boutique studio....I liked the flow of that control room....was very comfortable in there....but I didn't really like the layout of the rest of the rooms....I'm not interested in a 'proper corner control room'; it doesn't do all I need it to....I'm trying to maximize visibility as well as space provided by a L-shaped space....I think I've done that with this latest revision....and have listened to your suggestions as well as others....so I'm not being stubborn or whatever....I don't see the corner control room working without taking up far too much of what limited space we have for live room....we are also splitting monthly rent on building with others in cooperative we are part of....and they hope to use some of space in studio occasionally for photo shoots etc.....so trying to create a multi purpose space too....at least a large enough live room so can do photoshoots there if need be....



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#23

Postby StudioJiimaan » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 14:08

However I am always willing to look at options....so I tried what I think is a modified version of a corner control room:

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#24

Postby Soundman2020 » Mon, 2022-Jan-10, 15:43

However I am always willing to look at options....so I tried what I think is a modified version of a corner control room:
Actually, that's still not a corner control room! Its just another copy of a conventional style rectangular control room, turned sideways and scaled.

I'd suggest that you take a look at the actual diagrams of real "corner control rooms" that I posted, to see how they differ from more conventional layouts, and how they do, indeed, fit well into unusually shaped spaces. The key concept to a "corner control room", is that it is NOT set up along the length or width of the room, but rather along one of the diagonals. It is set up diagonally "from corner to corner". Hence the name:: "corner" control room. There is no back wall in a corner control room: the back of the room is actually a corner.

Another key feature, is that it does not have four walls, as a traditional room does, but rather at least 5 walls, and sometimes more. The extra one is at the front, and truncates where one of the corners WOULD have been, if it were a conventional design.

I'm not interested in a 'proper corner control room'; it doesn't do all I need it to....
In what way? It does everything a conventionally shaped control room does, and more. What exactly is it that you need it to do, that you think it does not do? How would you know, if you haven't even tried that layout yet? It is a true and complete control room, and does everything that a control room should do. If designed properly, it can fully meet ITU BS.1116-3 and EBC Tech.3276 specifications. It can provide excellent visibility in all three primary directions. It can be spacious, and house sufficient gear for any need. It provides excellent traffic flow, is highly functional....

I'm trying to maximize visibility as well as space provided by a L-shaped space
Yes, a corner control room would do that. It would optimize both space and visibility. The basic concept can easily be adapted to do both. But you also said that you will be using CCTV as well, so visibility isn0t really much of a problem...

Actually it isn't a copy of some other studio....or rather control room....it was in a studio designed by Martin Pilchner
So, in other words, you are saying that it is a copy of another studio (control room)! :) And you have scaled and rotated it to try to fit your space.

As I keep on mentioning, you cannot successfully scale one control room to fit a different space, because sound waves do not "scale". Sound waves always maintain their one-and-only built-in scale, regardless of the scale of the room you put them in. A B0 played on a six string guitar will always have a wavelength of 36 feet 5 1/2 inches, regardless of what room you play it in. The problem comes if the treatment in the original room was specifically tuned to deal with that wavelength, because if you scale the room, you also scale the treatment, so it will no longer treat that wavelength. And even if it did, it would probably be the wrong wavelength for the NEW room dimensions!

If you change the size or shape of a room in any way (eg, by attempting to scale it), then you need to compensate for that by acoustically re-designing the entire interior to deal with the new acosutic signature, which will be very different from the acoustic signature of the original room. The acosutic modifications will be extensive, and will have to be properly tuned for the new shape and size. Scaling does not work, for control rooms. Its a recipe for acoustic disaster. I could give you a list of all the many problems that scaling a room would create, but I get the feeling you aren't really interested in the acoustics of your room, so I'd probably be wasting my time.

There's another issue too: As Glenn pointed out several posts back, none of your designs show the rear-wall bass trapping, which is a basic key to tuning any control room. Where would you put your bass trapping in any of those designs?


- Stuart -



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#25

Postby StudioJiimaan » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 10:35

Soundman 2020, please forgive this stupid old grumpy bear....hadn't realized exactly what 'corner control room' was....missed that in previous comment where you diagramed it....just caught on when found this on John Sayer's site:

Image

Still trying to figure out how to incorporate properly in layout to best position but looking at doing so.



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#26

Postby Soundman2020 » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 10:59

hadn't realized exactly what 'corner control room' was....missed that in previous comment where you diagramed it....just caught on when found this
Right! That is, indeed, a "corner control room". It shows one of many ways that it can be implemented. You can make it longer, or shorter, narrower, or wider, as needed to fit the available space. You'll notice that it gives you very good visibility in three directions: Out through the front, and also out through both "sides", which are actually nicely angled for that, as well as being nicely angled to provide acosutic control of early reflections.

As I said the first time I mentioned it, I'm not sure if it will be a good solution in your case, but it is certainly worth trying. The few times I have used that for client's rooms, it has been because of an awkward shape space, and by careful manipulation of the shape and dimensions, it has provided the best solution.

- Stuart -



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#27

Postby StudioJiimaan » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 17:48

OK I decided to try the corner control room approach....here's what I got (using John Sayers' model just for illustration):

Image

Image

Image



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Starlight
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#28

Postby Starlight » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 21:03

Your images have disappeared from the start up to and including post 11. I thought at least one of those had the control room where, in your latest layouts, you have the live room, with the garage door requiring space for the entrance lobby, as shown in the diagrams in posts 19 and 20.

Now that the garage door has been replaced by a solid wall I would suggest reconsidering having the control room in that original space on the left, up to level with where the room opens out to full width. I would close off the door so that the control room does not have a noise issue with the driveway. That would mean having a single or double door as the window in control room's front wall.

Perhaps try that in a drawing and see what Stuart and Glenn have to say about that layout.



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#29

Postby StudioJiimaan » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 21:28

Starlight wrote:Source of the post Your images have disappeared from the start up to and including post 11. I thought at least one of those had the control room where, in your latest layouts, you have the live room, with the garage door requiring space for the entrance lobby, as shown in the diagrams in posts 19 and 20.

Now that the garage door has been replaced by a solid wall I would suggest reconsidering having the control room in that original space on the left, up to level with where the room opens out to full width. I would close off the door so that the control room does not have a noise issue with the driveway. That would mean having a single or double door as the window in control room's front wall.

Perhaps try that in a drawing and see what Stuart and Glenn have to say about that layout.


First not sure why those images disappeared (probably were part of similar thread deleted on another forum)....but no matter....

The space in the upper left is too small for the console we are going with....not wide enough....not one build walls in....so has to be in largest space towards back....

The garage door idea with picking porch though cool seems to be a more difficult issue due to dealing with track for garage door over the actual studio space....could be 'hidden away' under sub ceiling but adds more issues to deal with other than simply building wall in place....

We are trying to maximize space....a variation of corner control room (now I actually understand that lol) seems best bet....console fits....large control room (approx 400 sq. ft)....live room is about 350 sq. ft....still have lounge and easy access for gear through double doors....and could possibly include window overlooking studio space from stairway 'mezzanine'....



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#30

Postby StudioJiimaan » Tue, 2022-Jan-11, 21:37

Starlight wrote:Source of the post Your images have disappeared from the start up to and including post 11. I thought at least one of those had the control room where, in your latest layouts, you have the live room, with the garage door requiring space for the entrance lobby, as shown in the diagrams in posts 19 and 20.


I think this is the drawing you referred to:

Image

But as said console won't fit....




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