Desert Dream Studio!

#1

Hi all, what an incredible resource this is - a huge thank you to Stuart and everyone sharing their stories! I've been lurking the John Sayers forum for about two years now, slowly chipping away at this idea I've dreamt about since I was a kid... and the TIME IS FINALLY HERE! My wife and I moved out of our crappy rental and into a house with a big garage space, waiting to be turned into our dream studio.

The Goal: Create a small two room (live/mix) studio for personal work use. We'd like the ability to fit a small band if needed, but it'll primarily be used for drum/instrument recording, production, and mixing. I'd like the control room to be suitable for 5.1 mixing ideally, but primarily focused on music mixing as that's my main gig. My rough guess is isolation will ideally be around 55-60dB - although property lines are fairly far away, it gets quiet out here (20-30dB ambient). I'm currently in the design phase would love some input from folks more experienced than I.

The Space: Here it is in all its glory:

What's mapped here is the usable space, and the plan is to split it into part workshop part recording studio. We'd like to keep the garage door and opener in tact for easy workshop access from our driveway. Everything is on concrete slab and ceilings are currently about 9ft high. Electric and lights are already run on 3-4 separate breakers, but we'll likely hire an electrician install a sub-panel when we get to it.

The Plan: I have two layouts but would love to hear your thoughts. We plan on doing the mix room with John Sayers' inside out walls, but a normal ceiling.

Here's layout v2.3:

with "gear":

Pros:
- Open live room
- More efficient use of space (I think?)
- Some storage
Cons:
- Lots of angles
- Still not a lot of storage

and v3.2:

with "gear":

Pros:
- Straightforward construction
- Slightly more sqft in mix room
Cons:
- Narrow live room
- Not much storage

Other Notes:

- Storage. Airlock can be used as well as building shelving inside the live room, but is there another solution I'm just not seeing here? Luckily the house itself has a lot of storage so we can spill into there if needed.

- I'd like to retain as much ceiling height as possible - the existing ceiling joists run horizontally relative to my crude drawings. My plan is to stagger the new ceiling joists with the ones currently there a la Rod Gervais, so the orientation of the rooms is important. Hence the normal ceiling in the mix room.

So that’s pretty much it. In v3.2 I’m mainly concerned about the space and if the live room will be too narrow. v2.3 will have its own challenges I’m sure. This is my first full studio build for myself so I’d love any input I can get! Many thanks and stay safe.

#2

Hi
Welcome!
I have an annoying question to ask - are you tied to it being two rooms? The control room and live room both look a bit small and I wonder whether you could consider a large multipurpose room, a vocal booth/amp closet and a slightly larger entrance/store room for storing drums etc when you’re mixing.

You said mixing is the main source of work so that should be prioritised in the design.

Sorry if you’ve already considered and decided against this!

Cheers
Gareth

#3

Greetings athnony,

I echo Gareth's sentiments.

Also, in both of your layouts, you have many doors which is quite a bit of added work. With one big room, you'll save lots of hassle in that department.

The other thing to consider with two rooms is the significantly more complex HVAC.

All the best,

Paul

#4

Also agree about the one big room posts.

Moving from your existing designs to something like 22' x 16' will give you far better acoustics for mixing and recording drums. Also much better to spend time in.

The 16' dimension is approximate; adjust accordingly to get the best ratio for acoustics.

Cheers,
Jennifer

#5

SoWhat wrote:Source of the post

Also, in both of your layouts, you have many doors which is quite a bit of added work. With one big room, you'll save lots of hassle in that department.

The other thing to consider with two rooms is the significantly more complex HVAC.

All the best,

Paul

This is the first thing I thought of as well. That's a LOT of doors... and the only thing more complicated than doors is the HVAC, which is going to be a pain your ass. If you have a tight budget, I'd opt for a single room like everyone else is suggesting. If money isn't an issue, I'd hire a studio designer and have them help you get the most ideal layout for your given space.

#6

If money isn't an issue

To quote Edna Krabappel: "HAH!"

#7

Wow, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the amount of responses already! I've followed a couple of your studio builds on here so I really appreciate you taking the time to chime in

are you tied to it being two rooms?

With one big room, you'll save lots of hassle in that department.

Also agree about the one big room posts.

Gah! I'm battling this one internally. Like you all have pointed out, the benefit probably outweighs the cost/labor/headache involved with building a second room. It's just that I've been working out of a one-room studio for so long now and although it's totally acceptable and works great for recording "dead-er" sounds, it just doesn't cut it for "roomier" scenarios. Convolution verbs have gotten incredible over the years and I love them, but having a reflective live room with movable panels is hard to beat (for me, at least). So ideally I'd find a way to make two rooms work - if it's just not feasible, I'll bite the bullet on one room and be thankful for modern CPUs and IRs!

You said mixing is the main source of work so that should be prioritised in the design.

This was my bad, I misspoke! I meant to distinguish that music mixing and production are my main gigs, but I've been missing out on some 5.1 film/TV mixing opportunities that I'd like to incorporate into the design. I do a fair amount of drum + instrument tracking alongside music mixing - it's about 50/50. The 5.1 integration doesn't take priority and can literally just be enough space for speakers on stands and some tie-lines for back channels, I believe. Someone here probably has more knowledge on this and has complete permission to shut down my hopes of ever becoming the next audio mixer for the next Chris Nolan and/or David Lynch art film.

you have many doors which is quite a bit of added work

Good point. So this was my idea... not the best idea in theory, but hear me out. I was only planning on building four doors (only four doors :cry:

). The doors leading to the backyard and house seem like less of a priority for me for the reasons that -
1. The "guest" room is really more like an extra room and is well separated from the other living areas in the house
2. Our goal for isolating the mixing room is more like 45-50dB as we rarely monitor above 85dB - it's more like 75dB on average.
3. I can replace these doors/jambs later if this is just a terrible idea and I'm just being unrealistic.
Thankfully my brother (with whom I live with) and I both have studio construction experience, him more-so with proper studio doors/hardware.

The other thing to consider with two rooms is the significantly more complex HVAC.

Absolutely - I'll be working with a HVAC professional on this, but I'm hoping to tap into the two 3-ton air conditioning units that are used for the rest of the house. I'm assuming I'll need a separate air exchange system, but I'm going to try to tap into as much existing as I can without severely messing with the house's climate setup. Heat is less of a concern of mine as is cooling and ventilation - we just spent a month without a furnace and portable space heaters worked fine for the entire house.

If money isn't an issue, I'd hire a studio designer and have them help you get the most ideal layout for your given space.

I have a couple people I'll be talking to - both are pretty well versed in designing + building studios professionally. Honestly, I've learned so much from the forums that I kind of trust you all as much as I trust them.

So after all that's said - in your opinion, is it just not enough space? Are the rooms too small, or can it pass as a "cozy" space? I'm leaning for v2.3 as of now, but I'll be emptying the garage and outlining the layout for a better idea soon.

Again, thanks SO MUCH for the thoughtful replies!

#8

Is there a way the really cool workshop space could double as a live room when the need arises?

#9

Starlight wrote:Source of the post Is there a way the really cool workshop space could double as a live room when the need arises?

That is a brilliant idea.

Another possibility is variable acoustic treatment for the single room if you decide to go that way. You could use this to increase the ambience of the control room when required for recording. Also perfectly possible to drag gobos in and out of it. I have some with a wooden reflective side and an absorbent side. I flip them round as required.

If you do this and Starlight's idea you could have two live rooms if required.

Cheers,
Jennifer

#10

Greetings athnony,

I'm assuming I'll need a separate air exchange system

If you're linking up to a central HVAC system (provided you can), you likely won't as centralized systems have fresh air already. But your HVAC contractor will tell you for sure. If you do need additional fresh air and you can tap into the existing system, you can simply add an ERV or HRV.

Remember, as far as the doors are concerned, it's not just about sound getting out. It's also about sound getting in.

All the best,

Paul

#11

Starlight wrote:Is there a way the really cool workshop space could double as a live room when the need arises?

This is a good idea. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how I can do it while isolating the garage door. My brother would like to keep the garage door usable and it's currently one of those thin uninsulated steel panel type doors (aka big ol' hole in the wall). Maybe this is a rebuild-the-door kind of situation?

This did make me realize that I can expand the usable are slightly by simply framing around the garage door motor - similar to if I were to frame around ducting (to motor hangs about a foot from the existing ceiling). This only gives us about 6" additional along the south wall, but also allows us to build into the "airlock" area that wasn't being utilized before:

endorka wrote:Another possibility is variable acoustic treatment for the single room if you decide to go that way.

I love this idea! You made me go down a rabbit hole of Stuart's posts on this subject. I've always been a fan of movable gobos with a reflective and absorbent side, so this would work great while not eating up as much floor space.

SoWhat wrote:If you're linking up to a central HVAC system (provided you can), you likely won't as centralized systems have fresh air already. But your HVAC contractor will tell you for sure. If you do need additional fresh air and you can tap into the existing system, you can simply add an ERV or HRV.

Awesome, this is good news that I'll keep it in mind when working with the contractor. I'm also going to look into utilizing dampers so we're not wasting energy when the studio's not in use.

I'm going to work with these ideas and try to come up with an updated concept. Thanks again for the input y'all... keep you posted!

#12

I'm also going to look into utilizing dampers so we're not wasting energy when the studio's not in use.

Just remember to monitor the humidity in the studio. Your gear will appreciate it. You might want to consider a dry box for your mics (and any video cameras, etc). They don't use much electricity and work well. B&H often has great specials on Ruggard units.

#13

I'm also going to look into utilizing dampers so we're not wasting energy when the studio's not in use.

I would suggest getting a small HVAC system controller, and adding a few sensors, including the humidity sensor Paul mentioned, as well as temperature sensors, and maybe even O2/CO2 sensors. Plus VAVs (electrically operated dampers). Then let the controller do all the hard work for you! Set the levels you want, and it will handle the AHU and VAVs to keep the conditions constant in the room(s), regardless of how many people are in there. It is extra cost and complexity, yes, but it is also peace of mind. Some of the fancier controllers allow you to do the setting from your cellphone, and will also send you a message if something gets out of spec that it couldn't fix by itself. Nat feature!

- Stuart -

Soundman2020 - Studio Design Forum