Garden Recording/Mixing Room in Surrey, UK - Build Diary

#76

Yes.

I was assuming 150mm ducting in those calculations. The small amount of duct runs you'll have will have little effect on the overall picture. Standard rules apply; keep bends as gradual as possible, and stretch out the flex duct fully to reduce the pressure loss.

Remember that the because the surface of a grille is partially covered with fins, flyscreen, or what have you, the free area of a 150mm diameter grille will be less than the cross section of 150mm duct. So matching 200mm grilles and vents with 150mm pipe is a pretty good match in my opinion.

Remember to buy 200mm <-> 150mm adapters to make the connection from grille to duct!

Cheers,
Jennifer

#77

However, they only do 160mm or 200mm Ducting. so 160mm is going to be what I have to go with...

Adding to what Jennifer already said: Could you fit two 160mm ducts side-by-side? Increases your cross sectional area and reduces flow velocity substantially. That might be a solution, if you can figure out how to join them into one single larger plenum at each end.

- Stuart -

#78

I stumbled on this topic and following it closely! Awesome build

Maybe a stupid question, when constructing a warm roof with insulation on the outside, do you still insulate the cavity with rockwool or fiberglass between the outer leaf rafters and inner leaf rafters (where you place your silcencer boxes)? Or is this a big no no?

#79

you do need to insulate, and you do need venting of the roof sheathing - so the trick is to leverage the nifty plastic (or equiv) sheets which compress the insulation away from the roof sheathing to allow the air flow (typically they make an air gap of 2" or so (50mm).

#80

endorka wrote:Source of the post Yes.

I was assuming 150mm ducting in those calculations. The small amount of duct runs you'll have will have little effect on the overall picture. Standard rules apply; keep bends as gradual as possible, and stretch out the flex duct fully to reduce the pressure loss.

Remember that the because the surface of a grille is partially covered with fins, flyscreen, or what have you, the free area of a 150mm diameter grille will be less than the cross section of 150mm duct. So matching 200mm grilles and vents with 150mm pipe is a pretty good match in my opinion.

Remember to buy 200mm <-> 150mm adapters to make the connection from grille to duct!

Cheers,
Jennifer

Thanks as always.

Ordered the 150mm ducting in the end. Had some issues with delivery from Just Fans but eventually got all the kit. I'm in the process of installing and will update here with pics of progress, soon.

Good shout on the 150-200mm reducers, they don't fit the grilles as well as hoped but have improvised, you'll see...

Soundman2020 wrote:Source of the post
However, they only do 160mm or 200mm Ducting. so 160mm is going to be what I have to go with...

Adding to what Jennifer already said: Could you fit two 160mm ducts side-by-side? Increases your cross sectional area and reduces flow velocity substantially. That might be a solution, if you can figure out how to join them into one single larger plenum at each end.

- Stuart -

Hi Stuart, appreciate you chiming in on my build. Hope you're well!

As I have mentioned before, I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can from here on out; dwindling budget and time to finish mean I have to make smart decisions here on out. I have gone with the 150mm Ducting but 200mm on all outlets inlets in the system.

#81

BeardMusic wrote:Source of the post Ordered the 150mm ducting in the end. Had some issues with delivery from Just Fans but eventually got all the kit. I'm in the process of installing and will update here with pics of progress, soon.

Let me guess: they were waiting for the G2 filter panels to arrive at their depot?

Cheers,
Jennifer

#82

endorka wrote:Source of the post
BeardMusic wrote:Source of the post Ordered the 150mm ducting in the end. Had some issues with delivery from Just Fans but eventually got all the kit. I'm in the process of installing and will update here with pics of progress, soon.

Let me guess: they were waiting for the G2 filter panels to arrive at their depot?

Cheers,
Jennifer

Actually no; their warehouse is pretty bad; supposed to arrive Friday, called on Thursday and they hadn't even shipped it. Then when it did arrive on Tuesday, the 3 speed switch and the Synthetic Air Filter Media sheet was missing. Luke (manager) is good there; he helpde me with all the kit but warehouse not so good.

On the G2 filter - the Synthetic Air Filter Media was to try and use for some sort of filtering in-line as the Filter box would not fit. Looks like I won't be able to have any filter now though...

#83

Day 522

Was finally able to complete the 2nd layer of OSB on outer skin and remove the temporary tarp and wrap the studio in the long term stuff. Felt good with the bad weather approaching.

Next big job was installing the UPVC window with the extra costly 'Acoustic glass'

#84

Day 529 (March 23)

Side window installed. Bought the 'pro expanding foam gun nozzle and No Nonsense expanding foam' and regretted it. Advice: the No Nonsense expanding foam is terrible. go with another brand. Ending up using silly amounts of silicon to fill gaps.

Installing the windows was easier than expected... Another back up occupation for me :lol:

#85

Bought the 'pro expanding foam gun nozzle and No Nonsense expanding foam' and regretted it. Advice: the No Nonsense expanding foam is terrible. go with another brand. Ending up using silly amounts of silicon to fill gaps

Good advice! Apart from being messy and not-so-nonsense-free(!), expanding polyurethane foam doesn't have good acoustic properties. It works as a water barrier, and an air barrier, even as thermal insulation, but not so much as a sound "barrier". It has very little mass, so doesn't do anything for isolation, and it is also usually "closed cell" at the microscopic level, which means that it has no useful sound absorption properties either. I'm not sure of what you used was indeed closed-cell polyurethane foam, but most of the off-the-shelf "foam in a can" type products are. You did right in forgetting that and using silicon. Any type of common bathroom/kitchen caulk will do an excellent job in this application. It has even higher mass (surface density) than drywall or plywood, so it does great for isolation, and most of them stick like crazy while also remaining flexible and "rubbery" even when fully cured, which is exactly what you need. Personally I've had good success with the "Sika 11-FC" product, which seems to be widely available in most places around the world, but there are many other good ones.

And congrats on getting your water barrier complete! And your windows in! Having a sealed shell around you is a great milestone, and makes the rest a bit easier. (Or at least, more comfortable, as you aren't subject to the whims of the elements so much.)

- Stuart -

#86

Soundman2020 wrote:Source of the post
Bought the 'pro expanding foam gun nozzle and No Nonsense expanding foam' and regretted it. Advice: the No Nonsense expanding foam is terrible. go with another brand. Ending up using silly amounts of silicon to fill gaps
Good advice! Apart from being messy and not-so-nonsense-free(!), expanding polyurethane foam doesn't have good acoustic properties. It works as a water barrier, and an air barrier, even as thermal insulation, but not so much as a sound "barrier". It has very little mass, so doesn't do anything for isolation, and it is also usually "closed cell" at the microscopic level, which means that it has no useful sound absorption properties either. I'm not sure of what you used was indeed closed-cell polyurethane foam, but most of the off-the-shelf "foam in a can" type products are. You did right in forgetting that and using silicon. Any type of common bathroom/kitchen caulk will do an excellent job in this application. It has even higher mass (surface density) than drywall or plywood, so it does great for isolation, and most of them stick like crazy while also remaining flexible and "rubbery" even when fully cured, which is exactly what you need. Personally I've had good success with the "Sika 11-FC" product, which seems to be widely available in most places around the world, but there are many other good ones.

And congrats on getting your water barrier complete! And your windows in! Having a sealed shell around you is a great milestone, and makes the rest a bit easier. (Or at least, more comfortable, as you aren't subject to the whims of the elements so much.)

- Stuart -

Makes sense, Stuart.

I used the Everflex firemate sealant on the gap on the insides and silicon on the outside. the expanding foam was pretty nonexistent once it had dried.

#87

fire rated caulk tends to be expensive - typically i spec it only on the fire blocking stuff, but if you can afford it, it's generally a bit denser and doesn't tend to come undone due to flexing etc.

#88

Day 552 - 557 - Booked a week off to try and make some progress with the studio.

After 5 13+ hour days managed to get the battens up and back and side walls cladded in the plastic coated sheeting. Also got the Guttering and fluffy insulation of the internal stud bays completed. Unfortunately the insulation need to be cut to fit into my studs of approx 400mm centers; what a horrible job

These plastic coated roof sheets is a cheaper solution to cladding the whole room in timber, and although mainly used for roofing, it makes a good cheap alternative to wood cladding. Obviously doesn’t have the same mass but it was a financial decision more than anything. To give you an idea, the Siberian larch just for the front (and I went as cheap as possible) still cost more than 3 walls of this Cladco roof sheeting (https://www.cladco.co.uk/). It can be ordered in any length this is helpful.

I was happy with the final outcome, although I should have got the sheets 100mm longer. Installing them was really simple but the one horrible part was cutting the stuff. As I have the side long window, I had to cut that out. I got one side right but made a mess of the right side after a very long tired day and cut it all wrong. Thankfully they had supplied a free ‘cover sheet’ which I could utilise to finish. Cutting length ways was easy with my jigsaw but going across the profiles was a nightmare. I broke 4 of the 5 blades in about the first 10 mins of trying to cut the stuff due to the blade being shorter than the profiles when ‘in’ on the jigsaw. As ever I found a way to get it done but I would rather never do it again in my life time.

Another job was to get the soffits completed on the back and sides. Noone told me you were supposed to do soffits FIRST :lol:

thankfully I was able to tap the facias back out enough to slide the soffits down and in. It was a super struggle but got it done. Another thing to add to the 'did it wrong but will know for the next time i never do the job again' list. :lol:

(Eagle-eyed among you will notice the 'double battens' some say overkill but as I am using vertical cladding, double battens ensures better ventilation. this is only for the timber cladding at the front. the Profiles in the roof cladding take care of that for sides and back.)

Completed with cladco corner pieces, guttering and soffits. Just need to finish the returns to the side wind but waiting to see if I have enough cladding to do this otherwise it's another purchase.

#89

looking good!

#90

gullfo wrote:Source of the post looking good!

thanks Glenn!

On a less positive and more baffling note, when I moved all the Insulation packs from the rear right corner of the room, I found that the concrete appeared to have damp/moisture present. It is physically colder/moist to the touch but not exactly wet. stud sole plates do not appear to be wet either (the pic is deceiving)

Photos (as less contrast than our eyes, I guess, make it look worse than it is i think)

It was pretty depressing finding this I must admit and tears were held back

, especially the amount of care I took to ensure the DMP was not damaged during the concrete pour etc. But equally baffling as to how it has happened. Now, before I had fit the guttering, I discovered that the roof has a tendency for the rain to concentrate on that corner of the roof, and after heavy downpours I regularly found water not draining away and filling up the trench I had dug around the perimeter for the pea shingle, but only in that corner. So there is clearly an issue with that part of my garden and drainage. Once the water had eventually drained, I dug down to check that corner, expecting to find that when I pressed the DPM from the outside it had water inside it, but it didn’t. I have checked along the right wall too and found that there does not appear to be any water inside the DPM. Very confusing; I don’t believe the DPM is compromised, and even if it was, it would have to be a very small hole.

The water build up in the corner could be a red herring because the Rockwool (big 4 pack bags) insulation was stored and stacked up in that corner since October 2022 and I only moved it this month, so I can only assume that it is condensation? Maybe there was still moisture coming up from the slab and the stacks of Rockwool bags trapped it underneath on the surface. At least I hope it’s that because I can’t work it out at all.

Here’s a pic of how the Rockwool bags were stored:

Since clearing the area it appears to be drying or at least has got no worse, and we've had a lot of rain. Also the guttering has stopped the water collecting in the trench as I am diverting it away further from the studio. it’s also the coldest corner that does not get any sunlight, so thats not helping the drying.

Think I am going to dry the area with a heater once i get one and see whats what.

Any ideas/suggestions guys?

Soundman2020 - Studio Design Forum