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eightamrock
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#46

Postby eightamrock » Mon, 2023-May-22, 11:22

Soundman2020 wrote:Sorry to be rather late with this!

As Glenn pointed out, there are things you can do to help deal with it. Which it looks like you already did!

It will create a 3-leaf system, yes... but the real questions are then: How bad that would be? and Can you compensate?
There are equations for calculating resonant frequencies of 3-leaf systems, but they are a little complicated ( :ahh: ), so maybe not really useful.
If you have a large air path above that "middle-leaf" and below the roof deck itself, up through the eaves then out through a ridge vent (possibly required by code, but a good idea anyway), that would help to mitigate the situation, a little. If the roof deck itself "leaks" air, such as through an old-fashioned tiled, shingled, or slate roof, that helps too. Insulation in that gap (but not filling it, due to the need for the air path) also helps a little. Making that gap as large as possible (oversize rafters, or spacers under the rafter for the middle-leaf) also helps. A large air gap between the middle and inner leaf, completely filled with porous insulation (eg, "pink fluffy" fiberglass insulation, or mineral wool, in both cases of suitable density) will also make a difference. Adding extra mass to the middle leaf and/or inner leaf also helps.
So there's several things you can do to improve isolation if you are forced to use a 3-leaf system. You can do the math if you want to figure out f it is enough, but be warned: it's complicated!
Reasonable rules of thumb: increase your air total gaps by at least 50% above what it would have been for the 2-leaf, and double the total mass on the leaves if possible (or at least increase it as much as the structure can safely handle).
Basic question underlying all this: How much isolation do you need (in decibels), and what's the lowest frequency you need to isolate? Knowing those two can help you make better decisions.


- Stuart -


Going back to this topic as I am growing concerned. Rather than packing the roof rafters with rigid foam, drywall, and rockwool, and potentially creating that 3rd leaf, would it be easier to simply add some rockwool up there, then add a third layer of drywall on the iso clips? Im worried that only 1" of space isnt going to create enough air flow to vent the soffit to the ridge vent. If I just put rockwool into the rafters, that will give me several inches of space for air to flow up and out. Then I add some additional mass to the inner leaf to compensate....

Thoughts?



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gullfo
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#47

Postby gullfo » Mon, 2023-May-22, 14:23

you could do that but i would add the clips to create another (small) air gap on the inner mass layer. that said, i believe 1" is the minimum needed to create the soffit-vent flow needed.



eightamrock
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#48

Postby eightamrock » Thu, 2023-May-25, 15:12

Hey Guys, quick one for you. Im ordering my wall plates and cabling. My plan is to have 8 channel cable runs (4 for live room, 1 for iso) all installed within conduit in the wall so I can add/remove cabling when needed.

Can I use Mogami W2932 or Gepco GA61808GFC for in wall installation? Ive read a lot of review and forum posts, everyone seems to think they are both great cables and I cant go wrong with either, but I wanted your opinion. The runs between rooms are fairly short, less than 50ft, but I just want to make sure I get the right stuff (shielding, AWG, etc) for a permanent installation that will be headache free.

Also some folks use quadcore wire for mics, is this necessary?

Any thoughts here would be great.



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Soundman2020
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#49

Postby Soundman2020 » Thu, 2023-May-25, 17:43

I've had good experience with Mogami. Never tried Gepo, so I can't comment on that. Canare is another good one I recommend.

Not so sure about quadcore, to be honest.

What I would suggest, is that you run way too many cables while you are doing this! If you think you'll need 8 channels, run 12 or 16. If you think you'll only need balanced XLR, then run some unbalanced line-level cables too. And also run cables that you DIDN'T think of: HDMI, Cat6 UTP (Etherent) and also STP, CCTV if you have that, alarm wiring, maybe even plain old telephone ("POTS"). And run extra ones of all of those: if you think you might need one Ethernet cable, run 4. Even run extra electrical wiring to each outlet, just in case.

You might think right now "I'll never need that!" but run it anyway. Installing cable now and never using it is a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than trying to install it down the line, when the studio is finished. "Wasting" 50 bucks on an unused cable sort of beats ripping holes in your walls in the future, or losing a customer because you were one mic channel short of what he needed...

I can pretty much guarantee you that the day will come when you think: "Ya know, it would be really cool to have a ZZZZZ in the other room, connected back here! And wouldn't ya know! I already have a spare cable for that!". Or when one of your eight XLR runs will suddenly go dead, and you'll have a spare in place to take over...

Think big!

(You'll thank me later... :D )

- Stuart -



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gullfo
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#50

Postby gullfo » Fri, 2023-May-26, 12:20

yeah the conduit is good to allow future pulls. my recommendation is go with all hyper-twisted fully shielded digital cables. and terminate with RJ45. with each 258 block RJ45 termination you could have 2 or 3 XLR (depending on sharing a common ground or not) plus you're digital ready. a couple of plenum-type cables per room should be enough to address analog and digital needs. then using adapters as required - HDMI, USB, Dante, etc etc. only thing i would add is pull a couple of optical lines when you're ready for digital terminations.



eightamrock
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#51

Postby eightamrock » Thu, 2023-Jun-01, 20:15

Thanks for all the wiring tips. Redco just made a boat load of money off of me :)



eightamrock
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#52

Postby eightamrock » Fri, 2023-Jun-02, 20:54

Well that was fast!

IMG_3941.jpeg
IMG_3943.jpeg



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Soundman2020
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#53

Postby Soundman2020 » Fri, 2023-Jun-02, 23:44

Those look real nice! :thu:

(Now comes the 'fun' part: wiring.... )

- Stuart -




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