Studio Build- Central Portugal

Document your build here: All about your walls, ceilings, doors, windows, HVAC, and (gasp!) floated floors...
Dr Space
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#136

Postby Dr Space » Wed, 2021-Dec-08, 12:23

endorka wrote:Source of the post I don't have a window from the control to live room either, and it has never been a problem. Your ears tell you when someone goes off mic or whatever. I tried a camera in the live room linked to a screen in the control room once, but didn't use it, so put it away in the cupboard :D

I can envisage some situations where the lack of a window might complicate some things, but in practice it's never been a big deal here.

Cheers!
Jennifer


That is great to hear... I also don't think it will be a big deal...



Dr Space
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#137

Postby Dr Space » Wed, 2021-Dec-08, 12:29

gullfo wrote:Source of the post i've found, to be effective, the camera-video monitor set should be a) hardwired, and b) using a dedicated video controller/switcher managed via software on the computer. this way the monitor can provide not only visual (nice and clear due to hardwire and no sucking up computer resources) but also lyrics, timers, distractions (while waiting...), security integration with premises cameras, and so on.


Thanks.. We will hardwire it for sure. I don't want to have to get on a ladder and turn a camera on. I am looking at two different camera options. I want to be able to record/stream (if we ever get decent internet) the bands if they wish as well, probably to a different computer. Curioius what video controller you might recommend?

[url]https://www.videoexpert.eu/en/professional-ptz-cameras/panasonic-aw-ue4w---wide-angle-4k-ptz-camera-with-ip-streaming-white/
[/url]
https://www.thomann.de/pt/marshall_electronics_cv506_mini_full_hd_camera.htm

scott



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gullfo
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Studio Build- Central Portugal

#138

Postby gullfo » Wed, 2021-Dec-08, 12:47

Matrox, DataVideo, and BlackMagic are decent choices for video multiplexers. you could also use a separate computer for more complex overlays to feed the video streams (like using OBS for example) when you want to manage live streaming events.



Dr Space
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#139

Postby Dr Space » Wed, 2021-Dec-08, 13:37

Hello Glenn... I think eventually, once the studio is set up and money is coming in and not only going out I will get a 2nd mac mini just for the video stuff. Should be able to use the same screen as for the studio.

https://www.thomann.de/intl/blackmagic_design_atem_mini.htm?listPosition=0

https://www.thomann.de/intl/rgblink_mini.htm

I have so much to learn with the studio that I don't want to have to put a lot of time into learning video stuff as well so I need something simple..
Thanks for the advice folks.
scott



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#140

Postby Dr Space » Thu, 2021-Dec-16, 10:05

Decisions after meeting with Joules 10 days ago..

Mixing Desk- We discussed the layout and it will be 2 19” rack units for the patch bay and he prefers it in a vertical rack as opposed to into the desk facing up as stuff tends to get into the connectors. I will by 2 sets of 10U 19” rack rails from Thomann and we will build the desk to the specifications that we need for the gear. He recommended putting in the Beringher Powerplay ultranet in one of the racks so you can get 2 powerplay stations in the live room and people can control what they want to hear in the mix. I will order one for sure.

Doors, windows, Storage Room

Do we need more windows in the vocal room? NO.. He thinks this will be good enough isolation from the outside world.

Storage room- build in the entrance room? YES.. We both agreed that this would be the best.
Doors- He said he thinks we can get away with just two doors if they are heavy duty enough. I have asked for a quite for a heavy acoustic doors from a local company now. The PVC ones from a local company were stupid expensive (1700€).

Diffusors in the live room

They will create multiple diffusor/absorbers on the walls and I had suggested putting them on some rails so that you could just slide them into where you wanted so we might do this. He would like to build the diffusors/absorbers into wooden cases so if you want less, you can close them and if you want more absorption/diffusion, you open them up. He did not think we would need any bass traps but we will see what the measurements say.

Ventilation System and Heating and cooling

The ventilation system will bring in about 50L/sec of air from the outside. There will be one 25cm duct going into each room and one room air exit (air will not be sucked but simply removed by pressure. The live room one will vent into the ceiling to keep the air fresh in there and the other two will also vent into the ceiling as well. There will be another air exit to the outside not right next to the air intake but not too far away.

For heating and cooling we will most likely install two wall units. He said that Alessandro had good success with Hisense 12,000BTU units. They are very quiet and worked quite well. He will have to install some exit holes in the building for the water outlet (very small 2cm) and then I have to hire a professional to instal the actual units but they can do the wall mounts, etc..

I have contacted a local company to get a quote for a proper climate control system. We have to see what it would cost. It would be great to be able to just set it for 22C and 50% humidity and leave it on all the time.. Might be expensive though.

https://www.leroymerlin.pt/Produtos/Aquecimento-e-Climatizacao/Ar-condicionado/Ar-condicionado-fixo/WPR_REF_82577458?syte_ref=discovery_button 559€ each (18,000BTU)

Floor
He said that the floor should be able to be installed after they have been there 15-20 days as all the heavy work will be done. He agreed I needed to find a local to lay it professionally. I have started the search for some one who can lay the linoleum floor in the live room.

Live room wall, poster collage, this was fine to do in the next few weeks and then they just work over the posters. I have decided to wait though until they are mostly done in their.

Electricity issues- how to avoid spikes, power failures?? Can you configure the Vectron to do all these things? Yes.. should be no need for a power conditioner. He will put in two separate electricity hubs. One for the main studio gear and lights and the other for fridge, cooling units, etc..

Alarm System

We will run an internet cable with the electricity to the building so we can add a wi fi extender for the alarm system.

Will you do any extra caulking in the live room to make it better sealed???

He said they would look into this in detail when they get here.

Control Room

This was a big decision but we decided not too put a window in!!! He said the acoustics will be better without and it will reduce my costs 2-3000€ by not putting a window in. I had suggested this and to have two TV screens (one in the control room and one in the live room). 50” is probably best for the live room. We will then set up 2 cameras. Need to do some research.. This is what we will shoot for..

I am excited for them to start. Almost all the materials are in hand now so once Joules can get a crew, they will start! Exciting..
Scott
Attachments
0E51736F-4517-4B36-A54B-E17959ECE6BD.jpeg
Taken with a drone



psb_87
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Studio Build- Central Portugal

#141

Postby psb_87 » Thu, 2021-Dec-16, 11:58

That's very exciting news! I am following your thread with much anticipation.

When you say the ventilation will exhaust into the ceiling, do you mean above the ceiling between the inner and outer leaves? So essentially, the stale air will go into the cavity, keep the cavity air moving before escaping through another vent (on your outer leaf) to the outside world?

I hope I have explained my question well enough

Paul



Dr Space
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#142

Postby Dr Space » Thu, 2021-Dec-16, 14:04

Yes.. Paul.. that is correct and the that is the idea with the ventilation. I also look forward to inside to start. :mrgreen:



Dr Space
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#143

Postby Dr Space » Sat, 2021-Dec-25, 12:33

Merry Christmas everyone.. Thanks for the feedback this last year... The building is finished now! Joules has nearly all of the materials so I am expecting him the first week in January and it takes 30 days, he estimates. I am still waiting for some quotes for the internal doors. The first local manufacturer the doors were outrageously expensive so I had to look else where.

I also have a local ventilation company that will come by the first week of January as I am a bit worried that Joules idea for ventilation is not really going to work that well. He thinks we can manage with just bringing fresh air into the building with a fan (about 50L/sec) and have one duct coming into each of the three rooms and use the pressure to push the stale air out and into the ceilings above the rooms (no ducts) and then use a couple of wall unit heaters, coolers to adjust the temperature as needed. These run about 600€ each at least and maybe it is not that much more to try to do a proper split system. We will see...

Thanks folks.

E766A17E-6B1C-4DE7-89F5-1D3B5FDEB74E.jpeg
The building is finished



Dr Space
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#144

Postby Dr Space » Sat, 2021-Dec-25, 12:34

I am still trying to find someone to lay the tiles in front of the building properly..



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Starlight
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#145

Postby Starlight » Sat, 2021-Dec-25, 19:01

Dr Space wrote:Source of the postI am still waiting for some quotes for the internal doors. The first local manufacturer the doors were outrageously expensive so I had to look else where.
If it helps, I bought my doors from Acústica Integral in Spain, two of the RS3 doors.
Dr Space wrote:Source of the post... ventilation ... about 600€ each at least and maybe it is not that much more to try to do a proper split system.
With a split system, ventilation and AC are separate. Three mini-split ACs plus a building-wide ventilation system would be one possibility. From what you wrote it sounds as though the ventilation has no exhaust system and stale air cannot simply escape from air-tight studios. I find it hard to believe that that would be Joules's plan.



psb_87
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#146

Postby psb_87 » Sun, 2021-Dec-26, 07:58

Not having an outlet doesn't sound right...I think there may be a miscommunication at play. You can also use an inline air handler if you don't want to install mini splits in the rooms themselves, and that's how Newell seem to do it the majority of the time....But, Joules knows what he's doing, he's also incredibly OCD (in a good way) he and his father have been doing this for years... I've even met and spoke to his father a few times to discuss music and acoustics, and we spoke at length about HVAC. The ventilation system that Joules and his father use is simple, quiet, works incredibly well, and is cheaper than other more complicated options. If you haven't already I would get Philip Newell's book "Recording Studio Design" where this type of ventilation systems is explained in detail over several pages. I would listen to Joules.



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#147

Postby Dr Space » Sun, 2021-Dec-26, 08:47

psb_87 wrote:Source of the post Not having an outlet doesn't sound right...I think there may be a miscommunication at play. You can also use an inline air handler if you don't want to install mini splits in the rooms themselves, and that's how Newell seem to do it the majority of the time....But, Joules knows what he's doing, he's also incredibly OCD (in a good way) he and his father have been doing this for years... I've even met and spoke to his father a few times to discuss music and acoustics, and we spoke at length about HVAC. The ventilation system that Joules and his father use is simple, quiet, works incredibly well, and is cheaper than other more complicated options. If you haven't already I would get Philip Newell's book "Recording Studio Design" where this type of ventilation systems is explained in detail over several pages. I would listen to Joules.


I trust that Joules is going to do an awesome job and we had a lot of great discussions but the price quote I have from him for the HVAC only contains silent ducting and a fan to move the air around and I was also very surprised when he said that he just planned to put a duct in the ceiling of the live room allow only the pressure in the room to drive the stale air out, as this would compromise the isolation we have put great effort into making and would just vent the stale air (and a lot of sound!!!) into the live room ceiling and walls. He was suggesting just a couple of wall units to run to adjust the temperature when needed.

I am bringing in a local company and maybe Joules and them can reach a compromise and Joules does the silent duct work and they do the rest. I really do not want to compromise the ceiling in the live room which is currently sealed. I think a set of ducts, spread 5m apart to put fresh air in and stale are out of the live room above the control room and the same in the small entrance room should not be that difficult to put in. Stuart never finished the design for the ceiling but I think this is what was planned originally as well as in and out take ducts at the back of the control room in the ceiling as well.

peace
scott



Dr Space
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#148

Postby Dr Space » Sun, 2021-Dec-26, 08:47

Starlight wrote:Source of the post
Dr Space wrote:Source of the postI am still waiting for some quotes for the internal doors. The first local manufacturer the doors were outrageously expensive so I had to look else where.
If it helps, I bought my doors from Acústica Integral in Spain, two of the RS3 doors.
Dr Space wrote:Source of the post... ventilation ... about 600€ each at least and maybe it is not that much more to try to do a proper split system.
With a split system, ventilation and AC are separate. Three mini-split ACs plus a building-wide ventilation system would be one possibility. From what you wrote it sounds as though the ventilation has no exhaust system and stale air cannot simply escape from air-tight studios. I find it hard to believe that that would be Joules's plan.


That is great with the doors. I have written to them now!! Obrigado..
scott



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#149

Postby Dr Space » Sun, 2022-Jan-09, 11:30

Joules has arrived and looks like he will be working here 3-4 days a week for the next couple of months. They managed to get the floating floor for the control room done today and will start to build the walls tomorrow.. Floor was made with 6 laters suspended on waffle pads.



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#150

Postby Dr Space » Mon, 2022-Jan-10, 15:28

Joules and his assistant Suse were here working Sat-Sun-Mon (13hrs total) and they managed to get the floated floor down and two of the walls up in the control room. The floor was constructed like this: waffle pads, chipboard, plasterboard, one layer of acoustic dead sheet (one very heavy duty), plasterboard (these first layers were all be screwed together), another layer of lighter acoustic dead sheet and final layer of chipboard, all screwed together at 60cm intervals with 10cm screws.

The initial framed walls with pine beams were constructed in three layers: plasterboard, acoustic dead sheet, another layer of plasterboard. Because they are only two people they had to frame them in sections rather than the entire wall at once.

They will return on Thursday night and work Fri-Mon afternoon and Joules expects they can get the rest of the walls framed, the wall that was left open for the control room window (that we will not have anymore) will be closed and they will get the ceiling beams in place.

Here are some pictures... Enjoy..
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