Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

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garethmetcalf
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#46

Postby garethmetcalf » Thu, 2021-Jan-14, 13:42

Hi all
Day 45: rain stops play.

I had been making slow but incremental progress this week in my evenings. I have caulked all the stud bays, fitted the extractor fan and marked out the sole plates for the inner stud walls.

Today the insulation arrived for the walls of both leaves (an awful lot of insulation!) as well as the new proper duct liner.

However today also brought a catastrophic failure of the damp proof membrane around the slab and concrete blocks. I opened the door this morning to discover the floor that was nearly dry was covered in 2” water. It’s been raining for days here and the water table is really high - we have puddles on our grass, but something bad had happened.

Upon investigation I found water pouring through the mortar between two concrete blocks. It’s still pouring in.

To say I’m gutted is an understatement, but after a day thinking about it I’m so glad it happened today rather than after I’d put up the inner leaf walls as they’d have been ruined.

Clearly the damp proof membrane has been compromised so I think I need to get the place tanked. I cannot have the potential of a leak like this in the future.

My neighbour who did the groundworks is going to dig a hole to see what the other side of the leak looks like and try and stop it coming in, because as I write this it’s still flowing in. I need a pump to empty it.

My timeline and budget are now totally out the window. I have a driveway full of materials that hopefully stay dry whilst I get whatever is needed to be done sorted. I was making such good progress too!

Gutted.



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Jag94
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#47

Postby Jag94 » Thu, 2021-Jan-14, 15:46

Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear this. I can't even imagine the gut wrenching feeling you felt when you opened that door. I agree that it's good this happened now, but it still sucks big time. Hopefully you find a relatively easy fix for this.



SoWhat
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#48

Postby SoWhat » Thu, 2021-Jan-14, 18:14

Greetings Gareth,

How terrible. I hope you can get this sorted soon.

All the best,

Paul



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Starlight
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#49

Postby Starlight » Fri, 2021-Jan-15, 05:12

Ditto what Jag94 and SoWhat have said.



.dio.
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#50

Postby .dio. » Fri, 2021-Jan-15, 05:19

I feel you Gareth, I 've been "sunk" too sometime in the past... At least it happened in the early stage and you can sort it out. Imagine what a dissaster it would be if it happened after treatment, for example.
Keep strong,
dio



garethmetcalf
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#51

Postby garethmetcalf » Fri, 2021-Jan-15, 07:13

Thanks for your supportive words guys. I am 100% in agreement that this was the best time to learn that the damp proof is not working rather than after all my gear is in there, not to mention the rest of the structure and treatment.

Solution part 1: get the water away from the perimeter.
We installed a french drain that leads to a soak away already but the soak away clearly isn’t working in our soil. We clearly live in a clay soil area and the water just sits in the ground. So I am planning to install a pump in the french drain to move the excess ground water into a surface water drain.

Solution part 2: water proof the inside of the dwarf walls.
I have a guy coming tomorrow to quote for tanking the walls (the bits underground) to stop any water coming in should the french drain fill again.

What I’m unsure about is whether I need to extend the tanking all the way across the floor slab. I am hoping not as I would expect that the amount of eater able to wick up through the slab can be held back by a vapour barrier under the floor insulation and screed that are yet to be put in. I will ask the guy who comes tomorrow for his opinion though.

More updates will follow!



garethmetcalf
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#52

Postby garethmetcalf » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 17:26

I have spent the last few days working on this problem, and have made a bit of progress.

We dug away behind the corner where the water came through and the way the dpm has been folded up around the corner looks a bit suspect, but essentially now water has got inside it it’s kinda useless anyway. What was surprising was the amount of water in the french drain so the next step was to get a pump in there to get rid of it.

I have spent quite a while on the phone with my Dad as much of his career was spent in water treatment so he knows his stuff. He calculated what rainfall we should expect on the roof of the studio and what capacity for water the french drain has. We concluded a small pump running more often but with a lower flow rate would be needed in order that we don’t overwhelm the surface water drain that we’ll be pumping into.

For several reasons I ended up buying a surface mount pump that draws water up via a 1” hose from a strainer mounted at the bottom of a sump we made in the french drain - from a bunch of plastic manhole rings that I drilled loads of holes in. The idea is to get the pump to kick in when the water in the french drain is near the top of the concrete slab so this sump goes about 800mm down from ground level. Even so the difference between when the pump needs to switch on and where it needs to switch off (before it sucks in air) is only 80mm different so I’ve had to search out a tiny float switch.

I have been working on a control system with a float switch that I’ll hopefully be installing tomorrow. Thankfully Amazon deliver all these sorts of bits too. My Dad has also suggested I install some kind of high level alarm in the bit of the french drain behind the place the water broke through so I know if there’s a potential problem again under storm conditions - even though the tanking will stop water coming in it’s still best for it to not be at that height.

Alongside this I’ve been trying to keep the water out of the studio. I’ve had to use a wet/dry vacuum to suck it up and then empty that into a bucket with a borrowed submersible pump in (as the submersible will not pick up less than 2” deep water). It’s laborious but it works!

The tanking guy came and we agreed he’d quote for tanking the dwarf walls up to the stud wall, and then about 18” in on the concrete slab. My stud walls for the inner structure will sit on the tanking therefore.

Unfortunately the slab has to be dry to do the tanking so my priority now is keeping that water out so I can get the tanking done ASAP. British weather is not on my side so this little pump better work!

How much water was in french drain
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Water pumped from studio into manhole
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Contraption to make borrowed submersible pump reach manhole
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Plastic manhole rings with holes in for sump
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Sump being put in french drain
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I also lined my intake external silencer with the new, correct duct liner today so that can be out the house and installed tomorrow. I borrowed the idea of using those insulation mounting discs to hold the duct liner in place, alongside spray glue.

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Finally I finished off some annoying little jobs like adding tyvek to the back soffit area and wrapping and taping the roof vapour barrier down at the front. I dropped my second hand ryobi cordless staple gun in the mud which really helped my mood! By the way that thing is utterly rubbish - not sure if it’s this particular second hand one or they’re all like this but I can only get it to fire every third time or something. I’ll be putting it back on eBay I think.

After this all I can do is insulate the stud bays of the external wall then I’ve got to wait for the tanking to be done before I can make any more progress. Annoying!
Attachments

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SoWhat
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#53

Postby SoWhat » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 18:01

Greetings Gareth,

Sounds like you've begun to get a handle on the terrible situation.

I dropped my second hand ryobi cordless staple gun in the mud


Ryobi tools are really hit-and-miss. My jigsaw works fine, but my brad nailer has been able to fire exactly zero nails. I'm glad I didn't have too much invested in the Ryobi cordless system. I switched to Dewalt quite awhile ago now. Perhaps your staple gun wound up where it needed to be...

Having been in academia (and looked at WAY too much writing), I love when potential (or actual) syntax errors creep up. THIS made me laugh out loud:

much of his career was spent in water treatment


All the best,

Paul



garethmetcalf
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#54

Postby garethmetcalf » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 18:55

Hi Paul

Ha ha indeed I could have written that better!!

My drills are makita and these are really good, but I bought the ryobi staple gun as I’d bought their cordless caulking gun. Never again!

Cheers
Gareth



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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#55

Postby SoWhat » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 19:12

Can't go wrong with Makita. Certainly the favorite of carpenters.



Jag94
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#56

Postby Jag94 » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 19:25

I bought an pneumatic staple gun to be used with my air compressor. It was like $25, and it has been absolutely amazing. If you have an air compressor already, this is a must have. I use it all the time.



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Starlight
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#57

Postby Starlight » Sun, 2021-Jan-17, 21:10

Your silencer boxes are looking so much better than the earlier foam version. That was a job enough without the water intrusion. And you sound like you are getting the water truly under control, both now and in the future, which makes it a good thing to have done. Good going!



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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#58

Postby ScotcH » Mon, 2021-Jan-18, 17:41

Jag94 wrote:Source of the post I bought an pneumatic staple gun to be used with my air compressor. It was like $25, and it has been absolutely amazing. If you have an air compressor already, this is a must have. I use it all the time.


Absolutely agree. Air tools rule :) You can get a cheap 1gal compressor that will run a brad nailer and stapler for like <$50. It'll even run a framing nailer, at 5 nails before refill, lol (I have a much bigger compressor in the garage with a 100' hose I've been using in the basement).



garethmetcalf
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#59

Postby garethmetcalf » Sat, 2021-Jan-23, 20:09

Day 54.
Thanks for the tool related advice. I’ve seen on various American tv programmes that air line staplers and nail guns are common but I don’t have a compressor, and the reason I bought the ryobi staple gun was because it was cordless/air-line-less. I used it again this week and it is still hard to get to fire so I’ll be resorting to my cheap mains powered one I think.

This week has been about slowly evolving the control system for the pump that takes water out the french drain. I’m nearly there having fried one low voltage relay and a transformer already. I’ve had to re-learn basic electronics in the name of back EMF.

As of today, with a couple of days of little rain, the level in the french drain is quite low and today the only water that seeped into the studio evaporated as the day went on. This is good news.

The gap where water poured in last Thursday has been freshly mortared, and I’ve had two sets of waterproofing people come and survey. One was concerned about the potential for a cementous slurry tanking system to crack at the all important wall to floor joint if the building should settle, with it all being new. He was wondering about a system where you get the water out the building when it comes in rather than try and block it from coming through the walls. I said a pump in the floor was totally out the question but left him to think. The other guy has quoted nearly £2000, but that includes covering the whole floor too and does come with a guarantee which I’m keen on.

Ideally I’ll be able to choose a contractor this week.

Progress wise I’ve fitted the re-lined external inlet silencer and then the fascia board to the front, as well as a temporary gutter to route the roof water to my new sump and pump. I’ve also filled all the stud bays with insulation.

I’m close to running out of jobs, but thankfully my external door and window arrive on Friday. This’ll help keep the place warm too.

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On the upside, my new pair of Neumann KH310 monitors arrived. Unfortunately I’ve nowhere to use them!!

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Cheers
Gareth



garethmetcalf
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Garden mix room near Nottingham, UK

#60

Postby garethmetcalf » Thu, 2021-Feb-04, 11:41

Day 66. I've not been taking any time off work the last couple of weeks, so progress is slower, although this is mainly because I'm waiting for the inside of the space to be 'tanked' to waterproof it.

I have chosen a contractor to carry out the tanking and he is coming again on Monday to inspect. With any luck he will be able to get the work done later this month (February) but that depends on me keeping the space dry and clean.

At his request I cut back all the damp proof course that was lapped around the bricks, cleaned up and then pressure washed the bricks, concrete blocks and the floor. I suspect he'll ask me to do it again, but it does look a lot cleaner now.



The pump system was working well at taking away the water from the guttering and the other water that came from the French drain, but there was still water seeping into the room at the floor/concrete block junction. I wasn't able to move the float switches that control the pump any lower, so the only way to bring the water level further down was to dig up the sump and the gravel/earth that surrounded it. This was a job I did not want to do as I don't like digging and I knew it would be very messy. Still, last weekend I set about and managed to get everything out. After using a different pump to get the last of the water out of the French drain (including a moment where the pipe came off and murky water hit me straight in the face) I managed to get to the 100mm slotted drain pipe that the groundworks guys had put at the bottom of the French drain. I disconnected this from the not-so-useful soakaway, and routed it into my sump. This is now below the top of the concrete pad and since then, even with lots of rain the other night, the level in that hole and sump has been maintained below the top of the concrete.

There is still a little bit of seepage around the door area but I’m hoping that will go away once the door is in, which is tomorrow’s job. If not I’ll have to dig up some more of the french drain to figure out where it’s coming in... it’s a pain but far better to stop the water before it gets to the walls, and then the tanking on the inside is an insurance policy.

I did manage to install the window today, though! Thanks YouTube.

For some reason I cannot upload pictures today but when I can I will..




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