Private studio in Slovakia

[Soundman2020]

Its advancing very nicely, Starlight!

I must say, I really love your simple, but elegant and very ingenious circular saw guide. For a few dollars, it's better than some store-bought things I've seen costing many times more! I'm thinking of doing a page here on the forum for ingenious solutions that studio builders have come up with for various problems, so if/when that happens, the "Starlight Universal Saw Guide" will be on it.

- Stuart -

[howiedrum]

Hi Starlight! Great to see your progress. You are just a tad behind me but you have a bigger more involved space. I hear what you are saying about people fitting your project in when they can. I have experienced a lot of that too. It can be frustrating but there's not much we can do. I look forward to your next post.

Be well.

[Starlight]

3 weeks silence and then the 4 HVAC chaps turned up today to install the AC.

I mounted multiple layers of OSB so that the AC unit is further into the room as there will be a 28cm deep trap beneath it.

All tested and working. This is the first time it has been turned on since December 2017 when we closed our last studio.

The outside part is outside in the fresh air but sits nicely beneath a small overhanging roof which will protect it a little.

Next: Put the inner room's ceiling up.

[SoWhat]

Greetings Starlight,

Congrats! Or as Homer Simpson might muse, "mmmmmm mini split...aaaaarrrgghhhhh"

I will say that first photo looks like a visualization of: "How many HVAC guys does it take to screw in a light bulb?".

All the best,

Paul

[Starlight]

Source of the post"How many HVAC guys does it take to screw in a light bulb?"

Perhaps something like: one to position it, one to hold it steady, one to screw it into place and one to check it is level.

This week, 12th-18th July, 2020, was ceiling week. Straightforward work but most of it is above our heads so arms got tired quicker than normal.

I discovered it helps to get each board lying flat on the plasterboard lift before raising it into position.

And of all the possibilities, cutting the insulation to size and laying it on each board worked best for us.

Having worked it out with the first board it was time to get them all up.

One complete layer of 15mm OSB.

Backer road and caulk around all edges.

I marked the walls so that we would know where the isolation mount tracks run so that we could screw into them.

Up with the first layer of plasterboard. The lift proved its worth as it held boards flat while they were screwed in place.

Then plaster and tape (I like the American phrase mud and tape) over all the joins and backer rod and caulk around the edges.

Then the second layer of plasterboard. Both plasterboard layers were 15mm each.

And, finally, mud and tape over all the joins and screwheads plus backer rod and caulk around the edges.

In the last photo you can see our old superchunk traps. The room has so much reverb - which confirms that much less sound is escaping - that I put the traps in place so that listening to music while we worked was not the painful experience it would have been without them.

[Soundman2020]

It's starting to look pretty good in there! And the isolation must be getting quite good too, even though the inner-leaf shell is not fully completed yet. The end is in sight!.

Perhaps something like: one to position it, one to hold it steady, one to screw it into place and one to check it is level.

Right! But most HVAC installers can do it themselves, as a one-man job, or two at the most for a heavy unit... I've done that myself a few times, single-handed. The other three are just for show, I think! Or maybe they are apprentices, learning the trade?

All tested and working. This is the first time it has been turned on since December 2017 when we closed our last studio.

Quick question/comment: With most split systems, it is possible to recover all or most of the refrigerant gas from the lines and into the compressor, before disconnecting. There's a special method and setting for doing that, on the compressor itself or via the remote control. So the gas is then stored inside the compressor, until you re-connect it. Did they do that with your system, when they took it out? If so, then it probably only needed a very little additional gas charge after then re-installed it: just enough to purge the lines and make up for any pressure loss over time. Was that the case? Or did they have to refill the entire gas charge, when they re-installed it?

- Stuart -

[Starlight]

Source of the postThe end is in sight!

Just the walls, baffle boxes, doors and floor to complete the isolation part. Then starts the acoustics part plus studio electrics. Sorry, I cannot yet see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Source of the postQuick question ... Did they do that with your system, when they took it out? ... Or did they have to refill the entire gas charge, when they re-installed it?

With one pair working on each unit I didn't manage to see all that went on so I do not know what method they used when they decommisioned the unit in our old place nor did I see how much they needed to charge it up this time - nor into which unit they poured the gas charge. I blame it on my ignorance - when you don't know exactly what needs to be done it is hard to know what to look out for!

[Soundman2020]

Source of the post Sorry, I cannot yet see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Well, you've got most of the major big things done! You have the shells complete, and an actual, real room, fully delimited... not just lines on a screen and marks on the floor! You have power and HVAC... Those are all pretty good achievements. The light might be dim and distant, but it is there...

I didn't manage to see all that went on so I do not know what method they used when they decommisioned the unit in our old place nor did I see how much they needed to charge it up this time - nor into which unit they poured the gas charge. I blame it on my ignorance - when you don't know exactly what needs to be done it is hard to know what to look out for!

It's not your fault! You can't know everything about everything... They are the ones that should be telling you what they are doing! In fact, it's not generally known that this is even possible: most people just assume that when you take the pipes off, all of the gas just escapes into the air. Years ago, it used to be that way. But modern environmental laws have changed that, and most HVAC systems these days do have a method for doing that: You close off certain valves on the compressor, select a certain option on the remote control, and run the compressor until it has scavenged as much of the gas in the lines as possible, then you close another valve and shut off the compressor. That traps all of the refrigerant gas inside the compressor. Then when you re-install it , you are supposed to connect up the new lines, purge them with a little inert gas (eg., nitrogen), or a little of the refrigerant gas itself (frowned on!) to clear the air out of the pipes (you don't want that air to get into the compressor, since the moisture in the air does nasty things to the lubricating oil), then you tighten up the pipe connections, and open up the valves on the compressor to release the stored gas into the lines. There is often some loss from the original process, and some loss during storage if the valves are not tight, but you kep most of the gas like that, and only need to top it up a little at the end, in the final testing. You might not have seen it, but at the point when they started up the system, they should have attached a couple of meters to the compressor with rubber hoses, to check the pressure and flow. It's at that point that they would have seen the need to add a little extra gas to top up the system.... or maybe not, of the losses mere minimal, and it was still within spec. They would then bill you for the additional gas, if it was needed. And that's the main issue here: that gas is not cheap: it can amount to a large chunk of the total installation costs, if they have to refill it completely. So some unscrupulous operators bill you for the full charge of gas, even if they only used a little, or none! More honest ones will tell you about this in advance, then show you the gauges at the right time, and explain to you that the needle is pointing here, but should point there, then tell you how much gas you need to make the needle move, and how much that will cost you. That's what they should do... but like I say, not all of them do that.

I'm sort of hijacking your thread a bit here, Lester, for others following it in the future, or if you ever have to do something similar again yourself.

But that dim light at the far end of the tunnel, really is getting brighter, slowly...


- Stuart -

[Starlight]

No studio building work this week, just 3 days to thoroughly clean the floor.

It occured to me that I have a caulking tip. A decorator friend introduced me to wetting my finger before smoothing over decorating filler in a corner. When the plumber plumbed our toilet and kitchen areas I noticed that he added washing-up liquid to the water before smoothing the silicon filler.

The caulk I am using is really sticky in a gooey, messy way. I used the washing-up liquid trick and look at the lovely smooth caulk lines I got. That's all I have for you but it has been such a help I am sorry I didn't mention it sooner.

[SoWhat]

Greetings Starlight,

A decorator friend introduced me to wetting my finger before smoothing over decorating filler in a corner. When the plumber plumbed our toilet and kitchen areas I noticed that he added washing-up liquid to the water before smoothing the silicon filler.

Yes indeed! Our contractor/carpenter, who is of Italian heritage, refers to this method as "the Italian trowel." I suppose it has its origins in the large Italian immigrant population (and their descendants) here in the US who became contractors.

When I had to caulk our new bathroom sink cabinet, I used it and it worked like a charm! I didn't know about the washing-up liquid trick. I will certainly make use of that. Thanks!

All the best,

Paul

[Starlight]

Now the ceiling is finished it is time to build the walls up to meet the ceiling. I didn't want to build the walls before the ceiling as the weight of the whole, completed ceiling needs to hang freely, allowing the isolation mounts to compress as much as they need.

All done, OSB and 3 layers of fire-rated plasterboard, complete with plaster and tape. Backer rod is in place in all corners - ceiling-wall, wall-wall, wall-floor. Caulking will have to wait until next week.

Now it is time to finish the baffle boxes. First step: caulk to ensure that there is no chance of any leakage of air and sound.

Here is the duct liner that has arrived from u-spec.co.uk - thanks to Tom for the recommendation in his build topic.

A roll is 1.2m wide by very long indeed. I think the whole roll is 20 sq.m., enough for the baffle boxes and plenums above the AC.

I fitted the duct liner differently to Tom, simply because I have a staple gun and can envisage how to go about it this way.

You can see from this shot that only the stapled edges have been compressed; the bulk of it is still at its full 25mm thickness.

4 boxes.

Because the design of my baffle boxes uses the wall outside the studio and the wall and ceiling inside as part of the boxes, putting the duct liner in was an interesting challenge.

Time to caulk the flexible duct in place so that the air between the two walls is separate from the air moving from a baffle box to its partner box on the other side of the two walls. Using flexible duct allows the room in a room to remain acoustically isolated.

Outside the studio, likewise, the ducts are sealed. Also, we have pre-placed a small support shelf and a ceiling board to hold each baffle box in place.

Next: caulking the wall edges and mounting the baffle boxes.

[endorka]

Good progress there indeed. And thanks for the really useful tip about the staple gun for the duct lining, I have one of these. Worth its weight in gold for putting fabric on acoustic panels.

Did you have any green glue between the layers of plasterboard?

Cheers!
Jennifer

[SoWhat]

Greetings Starlight,

Very good progress indeed!!! Perhaps I missed your box design detail somewhere, but I really like using the wall/wall-ceiling-as-part-of-the-box idea. I can see where those nailers (what we in the US call those "shelves" you added) would be absolutely necessary. It seems like the design makes the installation of the boxes more straightforward (but certainly doesn't make them lighter).

Because the design of my baffle boxes uses the wall outside the studio and the wall and ceiling inside as part of the boxes, putting the duct liner in was an interesting challenge.

LP0862.jpg

It looks like the boxes got into a battle with some lemon curd...and lost!

Again, congrats!!! Looks amazing!

All the best,

Paul

[Starlight]

Source of the postDid you have any green glue between the layers of plasterboard?

No I don't.

Let me anticipate someone asking, "Why not?" John H. Brandt is the designer of my studio. John says (in the next 18 seconds of this video) that Green Glue is good but also that he rarely uses Green Glue in his builds. John explains why in one of the documents publicly available on his resources page, Sound-Proofing: The Quest. It is only 8 pages and well worth reading but specifically, he compares two STC tests, one from IR761 (which is in Stuart's Document Library) and one by the Green Glue Company. What John shows is that STC ratings are improved by using Green Glue but that STC ratings only cover 125Hz-4kHz. For music we want good performance down to below 20Hz, almost 3 octaves below 125 Hz. At these frequencies John prefers to add an extra layer of plasterboard/drywall to get better performance at all frequencies than use Green Glue for a better STC. I watched and read before I employed John so I knew what I was letting myself in for and decided I agree with him. Not everyone will and that's fine.

Source of the postPerhaps I missed your box design detail somewhere, but I really like using the wall/wall-ceiling-as-part-of-the-box idea. I can see where those nailers (what we in the US call those "shelves" you added) would be absolutely necessary. It seems like the design makes the installation of the boxes more straightforward (but certainly doesn't make them lighter).

Have you seen posts 39 and 42 in this topic? I show and explain the baffle box build but no, I haven't posted the box design plan as that is the property of my studio's designer and I am not at liberty to share it. He has provided me with plans of what to do and it has been up to me to learn why (if I want to) and how (because I need to). It is the why and the how that I like to learn and share.

Source of the postI can see where those nailers (what we in the US call those "shelves" you added) would be absolutely necessary. It seems like the design makes the installation of the boxes more straightforward (but certainly doesn't make them lighter).

Nailers is a good description and they do exactly as you say.

Source of the postIt looks like the boxes got into a battle with some lemon curd...and lost!

They will be the baffle boxes for my gingerbread studio - the first photo in the OP of this topic. I wonder what the absorption coefficient of lemon curd might be.

[SoWhat]

Greetings Starlight,

Have you seen posts 39 and 42 in this topic?

Not only have I seen them, but I replied to them. Ugh. Eldercare (for my father) is turning my brain into mush.

All the best,

Paul