Small control room design mk2

#16

Greetings Gareth,

a mini digger

I believe the word you're looking for is "trowel"...

All the best,

Paul

#17

Hi

I have a few updates so this is a long post. Firstly, I have spoken with my landscaping neighbour and he is happy to do the groundworks, including the French drain needed around the building. He is coming back with a quote but could be able to start in December, which is great news.

Secondly, I've managed to complete the bulk of my design of the building and construction, one piece of wood at a time, in Sketchup. Many hours have now passed, but this has been a really helpful exercise in thinking through how to manage the door and floor height, and the design of the silencers.

So, below are a range of pictures as well as the sketchup file. I've likely made countless mistakes in the way I use sketchup but I am getting better and slightly quicker!

The concept is the most simple - a room in a room, but there are nuances around the floor height which have led to me part designing a raised floor for the rear of the studio which I'm hoping can be used as an absorber as well as a seating area itself (a cushion on the edge for clients?). Perhaps once the room is built and I start measuring, this raised floor could be designed to deal with a problematic frequency. I will certainly need help on this and if the raised floor section is a no go then there will simply be steps down to the floor.

Two notes - I haven't shown the secondary door and window that will be attached to the inside frame, and I've noticed that I forgot to add OSB under the door and window so in one of the pictures you can see the concrete blocks. Oops. Will fix that.

Sketchup file:

Milldale garden studio actual.skp: (2.99 MiB) Downloaded 1142 times

Milldale garden studio actual.skp: (2.99 MiB) Downloaded 1142 times

1. Whole garden view - the raised bed will be build first so that a load of the excavated land can be put in there!

2. A closeup of the building. I haven't added the rubber roof covering in sketchup but it will be there!

3. With the external roof switched off you can see the outside set of silencers that will mount between the joists

4. With the external cladding and OSB off you can see the outside frame and then the inside OSB

5. This side view hopefully shows the two ceiling joists getting nearer due to the fall needed for the outside roof, but not touching. You can also see the ducting (badly drawn) between the outside and inside silencers

6. This shows the two sets of silencers connected together. The inside silencers borrow the patented Soundman model of a central inlet and two outlets at each end. These point down into the room, and will be ducted to registers that come out the top of the soffit walls, and at the back registers that come out the top of the rear treatment.

7. This shows the internal roof following the inside out ceiling module idea. At each end are silencers, then several modules. They are strange sizes to allow for joists either side of the window and door.

8. This has the ceiling modules and silencers switched off

9. And this has the internal joists switched off. In this you can see the raised floor that comes to just under the door height - it's made from two of the ceiling joists on top of each other, with two layers of OSB on top of that (and then laminate floor). I'm hoping that if the front is fabric covered, and the triangles at the back are open to the rear wall treatment, then it won't act as some ridiculous bass boosting box. However as said above this could be a foolish idea!

10. In this you can see the holes to the external door and window, from the inside. Note the floor height difference.

11. And with the external door and window switched on...

12. And finally from the outside through the door opening. Getting the heights of this all to work taking into account maximum overall height due to planning, that the external door threshold must be above ground, and that you don't want to open the external door and then have a big reduction in head height immediately was complicated. I think I have achieved a best case compromise where there will be slightly less ceiling treatment in this bit so that I have maintained the highest entrance height possible.

At this point I'm directing questions to my family friend architect about the design of the foundations, but any comments about the raised floor or anything else you've spotted would be great!

Thanks
Gareth

#18

It's been quite a while since I last posted, but as we've finally moved into our new house I've been able to make some progress on the design.

That's great news, Gareth! Glad that you finally managed to move in to the new place.

(3.22m wide, 5.29m long, 2.3m high). I have decided not to bother putting a toilet and lobby area in to the building, for several reasons, so the design is now more straightforward.

Excellent! So the entire building will be your studio, no space taken up by anything else. That gives you about 17m2 slab footprint, so you'll need to work carefully to make the best possible use of that space.

The whole building will be sunk into the ground so that the top of the concrete block is 350mm below ground level. This will give me enough head height whilst staying within the permitted development rules. The highest part of the building (the front) will be 2.4m about ground.

Here's one like that, that I designed several years ago:

This one is a bit deeper than yours, and it has several steps outside the building that descend down to the floor level, but the same basic idea: Dig a big hole, put a slab in it, then build walls on it.

If not it’ll be taking a mini digger through the house and hiring some builders with a narrow wheelbarrow!

Some diggers are quite narrow, and should be able to get through. Some even have wheels or tracks that can be sort of "retracted" inwards to get them through tight spaces, then "extended" out again for better stability during the actual work. Here's a tracked one I have seen that can get through a standard doorway:

a raised floor for the rear of the studio which I'm hoping can be used as an absorber as well as a seating area itself

That can be done, absolutely, and it is a good idea of you have enough head room. It should be designed with acoustics in mind, as you already figured out: You don't want a bunch of resonant cavities down there, all singing along with your music!

Perhaps once the room is built and I start measuring, this raised floor could be designed to deal with a problematic frequency.

It's better to design it as part of the basic treatment. It can be "tuned" broadly, to treat the modal issues, along with being general "bass trapping" for the low end. The tuning is broad enough that it won't really matter if the actual issues are slightly off from prediction.

I'm hoping that if the front is fabric covered, and the triangles at the back are open to the rear wall treatment, then it won't act as some ridiculous bass boosting box.

It's a little more complex than that, unfortunately! In fact, a long "pipe" open at both ends can, indeed, be resonant.... that's the way that many musical instruments are made! Wind instruments are basically a long pipe, open at both ends...

I'm thinking your riser could also be shaped more creatively, to look nicer and also be functional, from the point of view of access to the room, and also from the acoustic point of view. Here's one with an elliptical curve shape, in a room that is currently under construction. (Actually it is pretty much finished: in the process of final tuning right now). This was taken a while back, and the second one more recently:

And here's another one, from a smaller room, with a more angular look to it, just before the deck and flooring goes on:

At this point I'm directing questions to my family friend architect about the design of the foundations,

Since you don't have any plumbing or sewer any more, now that you have dropped the idea of a bathroom, I'd suggest a simple monolithic slab would do the trick: Simple to design, and simple to build.

Looking forward to seeing progress on this! Good prospects...

- Stuart -

#19

Thanks Stuart for your reply.

I'm glad my plans are looking OK for now. The groundworks are booked in to start 30th November, weather permitting, and I'm directing a few questions to a structural engineer about the thickness of the slab, the ceiling joists and the stud timbers.

I'm hoping to be able to start construction of the outside frame early in the new year! Christmas present list will include a nail gun, staple gun, boxes of sealant etc etc

I've started a thread in 'Gearhead Heaven' for some advice on monitors to replace my ageing, but still working Mackie HR824s.
https://digistar.cl/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=833

Cheers
Gareth

#20

Greetings Gareth,

Christmas present list will include a nail gun, staple gun

Add an electric caulking gun (they're even cordless now!). Not cheap, but will save your hands from cramping from the "boxes of sealant." They are available for both size tubes of caulk. I only have one for the standard size tube. I am lusting after one for the big tubes (read: Green Glue application), but I don't think it's in the cards.

I'll tell Santa to put off the lumps of coal until next year...

All the best,

Paul

#21

Good tip, thanks Paul! I didn't realise that cordless electric ones were available - I thought the only powered ones were air powered.

I shall research this too!
G

#22

From the far too much time I spent looking at corded, cordless and air-powered tools I get the impression that if you have a number of tools to buy, then that would justify the cost of one air compressor, and if not, like me, then electric becomes better value for the money.

#23

I’ve just read in another thread Stuart mention building a closet into the gap between the soffit walls at the front. This is something I definitely want to build in to my design, even if it’s only a small cupboard, as I’d been wondering where I can keep my microphones and other small items.

It’s great how reading someone else’s thread can inspire ideas for one’s one build.

The current thing I’m trying to understand is how to affix the waterproofing membrane when building the inside room after the outside structure.

My thinking is: build outside structure, caulk all bay cavities from the inside, add insulation to bay cavities, add looser insulation using impaling clips to fill the cavity between walls. THEN, using a combination of spray glue to the loose insulation and staples to the ceiling joists, line the insulation with waterproof membrane.

Then the inside out room framing will be assembled on the floor, rotated up into place and it will press against the waterproof membrane.

Whilst I’m thinking this through, I’m assuming the inside room wall frames should be sat on little wedges then caulked and baker rod? Or do I just sit them on three lines of sealant?

Thanks!

#24

Hi all
The last few weeks have involved a search for a structural engineer, the completion of designs for foundations and today the start of the excavation.

Audio engineers like myself need to take a leaf out of the pricing guide for structural engineers as mine was not cheap, but at least I know my foundation is correctly designed and the timber sizing for the studs and walls is right.

We have a family friend architect who has taken my sketchup model and the structural engineer's design and produced the drawings below. There are a few bits I might need to tweak, specifically about how the doorway works on the inner leaf, but for now these are with the groundworks guys. I will start a new thread in the construction section with pictures etc.

I'm sure the design will need tweaking as I start the building but I feel in a good place to at least get the outside leaf and roof built. I'm aiming to start that as soon as the concrete is dry. In lockdown what else is there to do of an evening or weekend!

Thanks
Gareth

#25

That must be a good feeling, Gareth, having got your plans formally checked and drawn up, all ready to go. Good stuff!

#26

To be honest, Starlight, I’m really nervous! I know I’ve done all I can by involving an architect, a structural engineer and of course the help from this forum, but as it’s now started and there’s a hole in the garden it suddenly feels very real!

Cheers

#27

garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post To be honest, Starlight, I’m really nervous! I know I’ve done all I can by involving an architect, a structural engineer and of course the help from this forum, but as it’s now started and there’s a hole in the garden it suddenly feels very real!

Cheers

One thing (of many) I learned while doing my project by myself from start to (almost) finish, is that every step of the process is the hardest part, regardless of which step it is. Each step is a daunting task that seems impossible. However, once you get started, regardless of how difficult, tedious, complex, the task is, it is doable. Just keep doing your research, and keep up with the detailed planning, and take it slow. 90% of your build is in the planning. If you are prepared for each task, it will go a LOT smoother!

#28

Thanks Jag.

I know what you mean - I did up a house last year and it was just slowly slowly and then suddenly one day it came together. I'm sure this will be the same, and I know I'll feel a lot happier once I have some dwarf walls built and have wood on my drive ready to assemble! It's just cutting and nailing/screwing from there really!

#29

Hi

As my build is progressing well, the time has come to turn back to the design of the room itself. I have got slightly amended dimensions based on the realities of what is now in my garden, with my inner room measuring:

3.24m wide
5.5m long
2.25m high

These walls will be built this week, hopefully. This passes the various tests on the Bob Golds site with a yes, and produces the below set of modes below the Schroeder frequency:

My initial treatment plan is hangers at the back, although I can't create any big enough to deal with the lowest modes, and all the walls are constructed inside out so could easily take 10cm of fibreglass insulation (although that would make a very dead room!). The rear part of the room will have an elevated floor to act as both a step and a riser for the 'client' sofa, and I'm keen to try and design this so that it deals with some of the above modes if possible. I'm thinking this will be some kind of Helmholtz resonator but need to do some research.

I have worked up a new version of my design in Sketchup, which is currently very rudimentary. My plan is soffit mounted monitors, with the basic design as follows, following Stuart's basic soffit design rules off this forum:

front wall to head: 1.93m which is 35% of room length
front wall to bit behind head, where speakers point: 2.23m
angle of speakers: 25%
speakers from side wall: 0.91m which is 28% of room width

If anyone has any feedback at this stage that would be good!

#30

Greetings Gareth,

Looks nice. Yes, 10 cm of insulation would make for a pretty dead space!

My only question: if clients are standing on the riser, will they feel claustrophobic due to the low ceiling?

All the best,

Paul

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