Studio Build- Central Portugal

[ScotcH]

Source of the post Wow it’s coming along!

Just wanted to pick up on one thing you said:

Source of the post The framed wall will be made with metal framing (5cm) with one layer of plasterboard on the brick facing side, filled with rock wool and two layers on the outside. The most outer layer damp resistant. This will make the walls about 13cm thick to give us a bit more room in the live room.

This sounds like you’ll end up with a three leaf wall, but I may have missed something. What is the purpose of the single layer of plasterboard on the outside of the frame?

Cheers
Gareth

If there is no air gap, then the plasterboard is part of the outer leaf ... but I agree, what's the point? And if there IS an air gap, then yeah ... bad idea.

Also, don't you need some sort of moisture barrier? I realize you're not a cold climate, so maybe not

[garethmetcalf]

Hi

I’m in a climate that does need a moisture barrier, so in my build I have a vapour barrier on the outside of the inner leaf plasterboard. I assume you’ll need the same but not sure how the additional layer of plasterboard on the outside of your framing achieves this.

Do you have a diagram of the design?

Cheers
Gareth

[Dr Space]

I can upload the sketch up design from Stuart??? I am asking Joules to clarify how exactly we are going to do the walls. I think I must be mistaken but I thought he said we would have 3 pieces of plasterboard for each wall.

[Starlight]

Source of the postI am asking Joules ...

I forgot, you have Newell Acoustic Engineering doing your build. I doubt there will be a mistake with a team like this.

[Dr Space]

What Joules is suggesting is to just attach the metal framed wall filled with rock wool to the brick wall. Then doing the wiring and put up the two layers of plasterboard. I know this will not decouple the the live and entrance room from the building but Joules is planning to float and completely isolate the control room from the rest of the building. He says since I am on a budget and we have massive walls and the building is surrounded by granite on three sides, and your nearest neighbour is 300m away up the road behind the building, we don't need more isolation of sound. What do you think?? I have asked Stuart as well to get his opinion, which I highly value. See if he can reply..

[garethmetcalf]

Hi
That plan seems sensible and I wouldn’t want to question seasoned studio designers. As you say if the control room is isolated from the rest of the structure that’s what matters for this build, as outside noise is not likely to be a problem!

Cheers
Gareth

[Dr Space]

Hello Gareth

I agree and I think we can trust Joules. We will not have any issues at all with outside noise. The road our house is on (which is way behind the house has at most 1 car a day, usually none, driving by. There are no neighbors around with the closest house back behind the house and up the hill at least 300m from us. This building has massive isolation already with solid granite behind the cement wall (30cm thick, 3.5m high, 11m wide). We will leave a gap and not fill this in. On the side facing our house, there will be the 25cm thermal bricks with 6cm blue insulation on the outside, and then we will rebuild the wall with the massive granite blocks from the original ruin, which are about on avg 30cm thick. The other side of the building is also surrounded by the original granite wall of the ruin. It is only the front of the building where any sound will get out and this faces out to the mountains and river valley where the next closest house is at least 1km away.

I think we will go for this plan as it is most simple for the builder and like you said, Joules would not at all suggest this, if it was not a reasonable solution. Thanks for the input.

[Dr Space]

April 28th

Had a nice chat with Paul yesterday about his thoughts on the timing of some things with the building. I am trying to get Joules and Joe, in the loop of when we will need them to come and do the wiring in the walls. Paul figures next week they will finish all the walls and put in the vega for the roof. He will order up the plasterboard and put it inside the building before they do the roof. He figures they will have the roof and basic framed walls inside up by first week in June, if the weather is not interfering. So then Joules and Joe can come up and do the wiring in the open framed walls and then they can put the other 2 layers of plasterboard up. I have written to Joules many times in the last month but not had a single answer. It is a bit disturbing. I have spoken to Joe and he has not heard anything about them not doing the job and has given us some advice.

April 29th

The guys did not show up until after lunch today and it was only Gil. Had an emergency pool repair. He managed to get all the framing off the back of the wall so I assume they will finish it and start to do the rest of the brick work on Friday.

April 30th

José has a bad shoulder so is slowed down quite a bit but they managed with Paul’s help to get all the metal shuttering off and the concrete cleaned off (big job). They swept and cleaned up the inside of the building and now are ready to finish the walls. Paul figures 3-4 days and all the walls will be done. He will look into the plasterboard on Monday while the guys do the walls. They lowered down some bricks so that they are ready to go.

I spoke to Joe about walls today as Joules and Joules is suggesting is to just attach the metal framed wall filled with rock wool to the brick wall. Then doing the wiring and put up the two layers of plasterboard. The inner layer will be the blue-green weather resistant type and the outer, normal plasterboard. I know this will not decouple the the live and entrance room from the building but Joules is planning to float and completely isolate the control room from the rest of the building. He says since I am on a budget and we have massive walls and the building is surrounded by granite on three sides, and your nearest neighbour is 300m away up the road behind the building, we don't need more isolation of sound. I have asked Stuart what he thinks, if this will compromise things too much, rather than do proper MSM or MAM walls as was originally planned. I will have a bit more floor space and it will be much easier for Paul (less labour) and cheaper for me.

May 3rd

We will have amazing weather all week so they should easily be able to get the bricks done this week. Doubt they can get the roof as well since it will rain for 3 days in the following week. We only have the crane until May 16th, I think.

May 4th

Paul was here for a few hours helping them yesterday and they managed to finish most of the side walls to about 3m and then add 2 layers of blocks on the huge concrete wall, which has to be blocked up to about 6m. They added some blue insulation to the outside of the building on the ruin side by the pool. There is not a lot of space in there. I am still not sure how they concrete and water seal that?? Anyway, he said they would trim the top of the ruin wall to match the height of the building roof and put tiles over the top of the ruin. This is great, then we don’t have to worry about water getting in on that side at all.

May 5th

They arrived about 11 today and started to continue on the back wall blocks. They have about 6 layers to go, I guess. I doubt they will finish all the walls today but for sure tomorrow. Paul got one quote for the plasterboard today. 6€ for the weatherproof and 4.8€ for the normal plasterboard. He estimates it is 110 boards and will take 10,000 screws!! He thinks he can get a better price at another place. They hope to get it delivered soon so then they can start on the roof.

[Dr Space]

Quick question. Do you think a 30cm gap is enough for the suspended ceiling? We are only going to run one microphone cable and some lights in the live room ceiling.. All the materials for the internal walls and ceiling will arrive next week- 210 pieces of plasterboard (1 normal, 1 damp proof), 10,000 screws, rock wool, caulk and tape, frames, etc.. Wow...

[Starlight]

Source of the postDo you think a 30cm gap is enough for the suspended ceiling?

That really depends on what the studio's designer intended. What will be in that 30cm above the drop ceiling?

To give you a visual clue, I have 30cm between the hard ceiling and the drop ceiling. Have a look at the photos in post 121 of my build, here, to see what I have in that gap.

[Dr Space]

Well, since Stuart never finished the roof I don't actually know. The ventilation will all be above the entrance room and control room ceiling and not in the live room ceiling which is much higher so perhaps only some wiring. I can't get ahold of Joules so I don't know what he thinks.

[Starlight]

Stuart designs RFZ studios. Mine is a BNE so I cannot assume that Stuart intended to fill the void like I have but I would not be surprised. I have had a quick look on the ointernet at what RFZ studios have as a ceiling and it seems that they can either be like mine - a full ceiling trap the size of the room - or just a thick cloud at the first reflection points. I am not sure what the difference is but I would guess at budget: a whole ceiling trap will be more expensive than just a cloud. If you do the whole ceiling, as I have, then the ceiling tiles need to be non-reflective, acoustically speaking. If you look at my build you will see that I made my own tiles but you can buy acoustic tiles with a NRC of 0.7 or higher that will do the job.

[Dr Space]

Thanks for this info. I will have to speak with Joules about it but he is very busy at the moment and stressed. The way the ceiling will be put up should make it easy to fill, it we need to do that or add acoustic tiles. Need Joules advice.. Thanks..

[Starlight]

After further studying I am beginning to better understand the differences between different design criteria. In a Non-Environment (NE) room, which is what Joules's father is famous for, you trap the whole room except for the front wall and floor, with the aim of minimising all reflections. A Live End Dead End (LEDE) room works by only making it dead in front of the listening posiition, leaving the rear end live and reverberant. LEDE has evolved into a Reflection-Free Zone (RFZ), which Stuart designs. This works by trapping only where necessary. One benefit of RFZ is that is uses less materials than LEDE and a lot less than NE, making it possible to be a cheaper build which will suit many home studios on smaller budgets, although there are plenty of top budget RFZ studios too. It will be interesting to see what Joules and his team do with your studio in Portugal, Dr. Space.

[Dr Space]

Joules knows that I have a strict budget so I am quite sure we are not going to do NE. I am hoping that once all the walls are up we can make a series of proper acoustic measurements and see what the different parts of the room need for treatment and go from there. It is likely that the drum kit will always be placed in the same spot in the studio so we can do the treatments in that area that will give the best possible sound for recording the drums. Look forward to getting that far.. Lots of rain today so they hardly got anything done today. We only have the crane for 6 more days and they will want it to put all the concrete roof beams in later this week. More rain expected so, we will have to see... Look great so far..