Private studio in Slovakia

[Starlight]

Source of the postWhen you acquire the shop vacuum ...

What's all this with everyone telling me about ShopVacs? Are you all on commission or something? I tell you, I am not going to get sucked into this!

Source of the postFunny how we (as musicians) are now looking for excuses to buy power tools instead of that next guitar, snare drum, synth, etc.

Paul, I think you are onto something. I have nowhere I can rehearse at the moment so the musical dreams are on hold. I am enjoying the journey of the studio build but I am keen to finish so I can return to being a musician. Just the floors, acoustic treatment, electrics, flush mounts, storage racks, and a desk to go, so my hope of finishing this year is slip-sliding away.

[Pequod]

Really good thread! I feel your pain about the time it takes to do all this, and how your brain switches from the creative & musical to the construction & analytic side of things. I'm right there with ya.

A few questions for when you have time. Regarding HVAC:

I hadn't realized that you could add ductwork in the room after the silencers, although it makes sense. But I'm wondering why you used that kind of duct? It looks to be the insulated kind. Given that the whole space is insulated, would any kind of ductwork be appropriate there (as long as it is sized right)? I have a similar space but not as much room inside the ceiling cavity. So I might be using a rectangular duct in order to fit. Regular metal duct is a lot cheaper I think, I just wondered if it mattered or not. I will be insulating around it as well.

Do you have any info on how you sized the airflow requirements & chose the HRV? I just wanted to compare notes. I know you mentioned the HRV model somewhere but can't find it right now. I had planned on a single mixed system but realized the ducts & baffles would need to be too big to accommodate ~260 CFM, so I'm probably going with a ductless in the room and ducted fresh air like you.

Do you plan to let the HRV run all the time and/or will you wire in a speed control somewhere?

Regarding electrical:

Did you twist those wires yourself? How? Are they stranded or solid?

Are you also using homeruns to the panel for each ground (star) or just jumping from outlet to outlet?

Did you use a special outlet like an ISG (assuming you also have metal conduit)? I was hoping to get away with plastic conduit and boxes, then either twisted pair or star ground, but hopefully not both.

Sorry I guess that was more than a few questions.

[Starlight]

Hello Pequod and sorry about the long time it has taken me to reply to you.

Source of the postI'm wondering why you used that kind of duct?

The two basic options are solid or soft (AKA flexi-) duct. As I understand what I have read, flexiduct disturbs the airflow inside the duct more than solid duct, whereas solid duct will transmit sound along its length more than flexiduct. I chose solid duct apart from short pieces of flexiduct to attach to the ventilator because the two fans inside the ventilator make a noise and I wanted to minimise the noise transferring to the solid ducts.

If I am wrong, Stuart has a new topic for his Fake Acoustics!

Source of the postIt looks to be the insulated kind.

A little history may help. In 2015 my wife and I bought the HVAC used in this new studio. In preparing it for the room it would be in back then the HVAC guys wrapped it, saying the foam dampens the duct from ringing with any sound inside the duct. Here are two of the guys wrapping the self-adhesive duct wrap around a duct.

When we closed that rented space we hung onto the HVAC until we were ready to install it in the new studio. You are probably right about the wrap being unnecessary where it is now, sitting in an insulation filled space but there was no benefit to be had from removing it and so we left the wrap in place.

Source of the postDo you have any info on how you sized the airflow requirements & chose the HRV?

For airflow requirements read Stuart's Studio HVAC topic. Two key paragraphs are the ones that start, "It needs to move a certain volume of air every hour," and, "The recommendation used to be," but they need to be understood in the context of the whole topic.

Source of the postI know you mentioned the HRV model somewhere but can't find it right now.

See post 16 in Stuart's Studio HVAC topic.

Source of the postDo you plan to let the HRV run all the time and/or will you wire in a speed control somewhere?

My current habit is to turn it on as I enter the studio and either turn it off as I leave - or not as it is programmed to turn itself off at 11 o'clock each night. My ventilator has 4 speeds so I just select the speed I want: 88, 175, 263 or 350 cubic metres per hour. Many studio designers follow the The International Mechanical Code which recommends 35 cu.m/hr per person which I think equates to 15 CFM or about 450 litres per minute.

Source of the postRegarding electrical:

Just to warn you: when people ask me electrical questions I realise this is not my strongest topic.

Source of the postDid you twist those wires yourself? How? Are they stranded or solid?

Yes I twisted them myself. My designer said to use stranded cable so I did. Some people clamp the cables in a drill chuck and let the drill do the twisting but I chose to twist them by hand, like this:

Source of the postAre you also using homeruns to the panel for each ground (star) or just jumping from outlet to outlet?

Sorry, I have no idea what a homerun is. There will be two panels and so the power coming into the studio goes straight to one panel and from there to the other panel, carrying clean power for all the audio gear and a second power supply for all the non-audio stuff like vacuum cleaner, mobile phone, CO2 meter and more. Ground (earth) uses the earth from the main fusebox, the entry point of electricity to our premises. If this was a new build in a dedicated detached building I am sure the electrics would have been done differently but as we have just one room in a large building we don't have any choice on things outside our room.

Source of the postDid you use a special outlet like an ISG (assuming you also have metal conduit)? I was hoping to get away with plastic conduit and boxes, then either twisted pair or star ground, but hopefully not both.

I have no idea what ISG is. We are using flexible plastic conduit. I have come across the terms twisted pair and star ground but I would need to study them again as I cannot remember what they mean. Sorry about that.

[gullfo]

Source of the post Sorry, I have no idea what a homerun is.
...
I have no idea what ISG is. We are using flexible plastic conduit.

for reference:

1. a "home run" is a direct line from the outlet to the panel. rather than chaining the outlets.
2. ISG outlets - isolated ground simply means the ground is fully separated from the cold part of the circuit. not to be confused with a ground fault interrupt (GFI) outlet which senses a discontinuity in the ground and breaks the circuit.

https://www.thespruce.com/what-are-isol ... es-1152789

[Starlight]

Thanks, Glenn.

1. So, no we are not using home runs as the mains is planned to the first panel and then on to the second panel. However, I added two extra mains cables through the walls so I could run one straight to the second panel, thereby having home runs, if that would be better.

2. Now I know what ISG is I will have to study further to know what we have, so I cannot yet answer Pequod's question.

[gullfo]

it's fairly common to have a "main" panel, and "sub" panels. i do this often in my designs to avoid extra wiring - the subpanel sits in the studio space and all switches and outlets are "home run" to this subpanel. then the subpanel has the mains power (via separate breakers on the main) and the large ground to the mains ground. so i might have a 50A circuit to the subpanel (in the USA - either single phase or dual - 110v or 220v) and that breaks out on the subpanel into switches, outlets, perhaps a 220v for the SSL board P/S etc )

[Pequod]

Thanks for the replies. Makes sense on the HVAC.

For the electrical, I know John is a (perhaps minority) fan of balanced power but I haven't seen too many details, like how you would obtain twisted pair 12 gauge or 10 gauge cabling, and whether stranded would hold a twist if done DIY -- which apparently it does.

I also wasn't sure if the balanced system required metal conduit to complete the shielding strategy. That conduit would also be grounded separately (I think) and then the reason you have ISG receptacles is that they have both grounds separated. They are often used in hospitals and are a lot more expensive. Of course, I'm very interested in not needing to use ISG or metal conduit, so I'm happy to hear you didn't.

I know John is also a fan of Zero Loop Area wiring, where you run the high voltage conduit and audio wiring/conduit close together for as long as possible. I don't recall if you mentioned him having you do that or not.

By far the most recommended method I've seen for studios are the home runs aka star grounding, which means each outlet runs a separate ground wire back to the panel (or sub panel), while the hot and neutral wires can be jumpered from outlet to outlet (as normal). It means you have a lot more wires in your conduit and perhaps bigger conduit. I was planning a 5 outlet run on one circuit and figured it would require 25 wires total. If using 10 gauge, as John also recommends, that's a 1 1/4in conduit, which is pretty big. In any case, I wasn't sure if he was for both balanced wiring AND star grounding. They could conceivably be done together vs one or the other.

Ultimately, as I've come to understand, the Electrical Gods just choose to smile on some people and curse others. It may not matter what steps you took - you can still have noise issues. Or have a bog standard wiring setup and no problems at all. You just don't know until the build is done and your gear is all wired up.

[Starlight]

Source of the post... how you would obtain twisted pair 12 gauge or 10 gauge cabling ...

I could not find any suitable pre-twisted cables in Europe. You are in the US so it may be a different story there but don't be surprised if you have to construct these cables yourself.

Source of the post... whether stranded would hold a twist if done DIY -- which apparently it does.

Yes, I can confirm that hand twisted cables hold their twist. The reason I did it by hand is because I could help the cables to rotate naturally as I twisted them, not unlike an airplane doing a roll - it rolls its way through a spiral pattern rather than always staying upright while spiralling. In a drill chuck the cable would not be able to naturally rotate. Maybe it would make no difference but I chose to go with what seemed logical and helpful.

Source of the postI know John is also a fan of Zero Loop Area wiring, where you run the high voltage conduit and audio wiring/conduit close together for as long as possible. I don't recall if you mentioned him having you do that or not.

I haven't got to that point yet but will do soon, and yes, you understand John's method well.

[Pequod]

I just posted this on Stuart's HVAC thread but am wondering if you have any details on how you installed the minisplit while maintaining your isolation. Seems like it would be very tricky to do in practice given the various lines and power wires passing through a good size hole in each wall.

[Starlight]

Pequod, have a look at posts 16, 17 (especially post 17 from Stuart), 18 and 19, part of posts 20 and 23 and then post 48 is where the HVAC company came and installed the units and got it working. I could have just reposted the relevant photos but reading the text will help explain the details. Ask further if you need.

You said the correct answer in your other post:

Source of the postDrill the two holes offset from each other by a few feet.

[Pequod]

Ah, thanks. I did actually read that a while back. Think my head is overflowing...

It's probably where I picked up some of my general ideas. I'm still a little concerned about what's inside those protective white bundles. Often it's multiple lines or tubes. So even with the outside caulked and airtight as it passes through the hole, the density of the inner bundle will be low in some places. In other words, you could probably take a wire hanger and poke a hole through the middle of that bundle (and the wall) with little effort. And there's the matter of ever having to replace it.

But that said, it seems to be a very common solution and I can't think of a better one other than placing the whole unit outside the room -- which brings its own challenges.

I'm hoping I can find an HVAC company that will work with me - perhaps letting me install the unit on the wall and seal the penetrations while they do the rest.

[Starlight]

The floors have been a slow job, 20 days spread over almost 3 months. Continuing from the photos in post 175, the flooring installer came and said the self-levelling cement wasn't level enough so we had to put another layer on top.

This is Mapei Planiprep 4 LVT which I would describe as a really hard plaster rather than a cement product. It was easy to get it even flatter with an orbital sander. The flooring guys arrived just as I finished sanding so they vacuumed the dust up and then applied glue to the floor which was then left for an hour to dry.

Source of the post... having someone with you with a shop vac to suck up the dust as you go.

Now I understand and appreciate your (and others') recommendation, Glenn, after seen it done by the flooring installers.

It was worth the extra effort and fuss as the linoleum looks great.

Past the studio door, through the kitchen and into the toilet area.

Then everything we had stored inside the studio had to be moved into the corridor so that we had a clear studio floor.

Starting with a dry run to figure out the best way to do it; Regupol in one direction and the floor in the other direction.

3mm (that's about 1/8th of an inch) of Regupol was glued to the old tiled floor. I studied about whether to glue or loose-lay the Regupol and decided to glue it. Having finished I would say it made laying the wood easier.

After leaving the engineered wooden floor, made from ash, in the room for a few days to acclimatise, it was time to start laying it. Learn from my mistake: the Barlinek engineered wooden floor had simple instructions that said to click the pieces into place. The second row clicked into the first but was not completely flat. By the time I had done the first 5 rows I realised the floor was not going to flatten itself so I pulled it all up and started again, this time hammering home the final fraction of a millimetre so that it would lay perfectly flat and tightly against the adjoining pieces. Now I understand it I am impressed with how precisely engineered the floor is.

Once I was underway there was no stopping me. About a cm gap was left on all four edges to allow for natural expansion. Apart from by the door, the edges will be hidden by acoustic treatment so no need for skirting boards.

Now that all the floors are in, it feels as though the place is ready to be used for rehearsing (which it will be) and nearing completion (which it isn't, at least not yet).

In case you are interested, with the floor and ceiling in the studio now finished, it sounds like it looks, a not overly reverberant room but with 4 bare walls I can clearly hear comb filtering when listening to music while I work.

Next: paint the two grey studio doors and do something in the gap between them.

[endorka]

That looks amazing! Laying these laminate floors is fascinating I think. I remember the first one I tried without any special tools and it was hopeless. Once someone told me about this tool it made everything just work. I assume you have something similar? Without it, I think the task is essentially impossible!

51QkgpvKpFL._AC_SL1000_.jpg (27.04 KiB) Viewed 26439 times

51QkgpvKpFL._AC_SL1000_.jpg (27.04 KiB) Viewed 26439 times

Next: paint the two grey studio doors and do something in the gap between them.

I was wondering what you would be doing with that, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Cheers!
Jennifer

[Starlight]

There is no way you could hammer the floor boards without damaging them so such a tool is essential. With so much scrap wood to hand I made a wooden version from plywood. By the end of the job it had partially disintegrated so a steel one would be better.

[SoWhat]

Greetings Starlight,

Beautiful work.

I just finished laying a new floor in my new study, and

such a tool is essential

. We've laid several floors over the years, and I've even managed to lose one of those things (although I have a friend who has FOUR coping saws; talk about something you only need one of and is difficult to lose). Whodathought it would be possible to misplace a heavy steel bar, but somehow I succeeded.

All the best,

Paul