Up All Nite Studio - 2022 [Control Room]

[RJHollins]

ahh .... ok. Thanks Glenn.

Glenn ... in no way to be disrespectful to you and your knowledge, but I'm kinda wanting to leave this window open

When I study the Sketchup, there is plenty of the window covered up with both the corner chunks and then the center broadband.

I know this room is no where near the dimensions nor structural layout to make it remotely 'world class' ...

Maybe its' the vertigo talking ... or the frustration of having to basically sit on my ass for the past 2+ years.

During that time, I've been heavy with headphone [VSX tech]. In that, I have multiple Control rooms, Mastering room, cars, etc. I understand
these are just simulations ... and no one is more surprised [i guess] than me about how the translation, and Client comments have been.
Yes ... I'm rather shock myself, as I typically despised headphones for anything other than checking panning. Let alone the very fact that every prior attempt at Mixing or Mastering in 'regular' phones turned out to be a sonic nightmare when played in speakers [yes... horrible].

I'm really thinking that treating this Den Room is more to allow a Client to come in and listen in a [rather] treated room. Not to say that I
can't do some pre-tweaking using monitors. Crazy as it might be, I am so familiar with my Auratones and NS10 that I can do important adjustment. Obviously the extreme ends need Mains, or as I've found, this headphone sim.

I feel lousy and disappointed to even think this way. Getting angry won't help at all. I know that

Went shopping today for some building supplies for this buildout, as well as for some new furniture and beds for the house. The guy helping me
at the furniture stores tells me HE has Vertigo ... going on 2 years. He said no body understands what He's going through, except for
those that have had it. So true. Feels like he's floating inside his body ... detached. Interesting that he's going to the same DENT Institute, and knows some of the Therapy places and the same Therapist.

I joked with him ... is this stuff contagious ! So many people I've met that had/have or someone they know.

Sorry for the longwind post ... I need to stay seated ... and the Hockey game looks to be a blow out I'm hoping for 7 games cause
nothing else on.

anyway ... trying to find some reasonable reality, and the most sensible course to go ... while I still have my hearing
ahhh ...

[gullfo]

no worries. these are just ideas freely shared. ultimately you need to make the decisions for your workflows and clients + living space. one option on the plug - because the photo looks a lot different than the window in the SU file you shared, is create a vertical window which is mainly centered for the room for light. if you do decide to treat the room, then at least part of the window is providing daylight. cheers!

[RJHollins]

Hi Glenn ... apologies for the long space before replying. Meant no dis-respect.

Still working through the vertigo issues ... the 'good news' ... a medication that I was put on for the heart ablation was stopped on July 1st.

It's link to enhancing/causing vertigo was published in a medical report my sister sent me. Add to that, I was on double the usual max dosage. I don't know why. They say you're suppose to be monitored regularly due to toxicity concerns. I was never told, nor was I monitored. I don't know what to think about that ... other than I am feeling generally better inside ... but still vertigo

Anyways ... so slowly moving on things here.

I've prepped, painted some pieces I need to mount panels on ... I'm going to use all the treatment made from that first build [all in excellent shape].

A few days back, and early Today , I had the Salvation Army and Amvets here to take unneeded furniture that was here [including the Den Room]. Finally getting the Room's space cleared out. yeah !

Next, I'm trying to get some helpers hired to move things upstairs ... and get a carpenter assistant to help me get pieces in and secured.

Main thing are the 2 'chunky corner trap enclosures', along with furring strips down the side walls [minimum] to start.

Then to have the concrete blocks laidout/positioned after measurements.

Have no choice but to move slowly on this [regardless of my impatient].

I'm sure questions will come up [even after having done this before].

Thanks again, Glenn, for all the help/insight and design work you have given. Thank-you.

RJH

[RJHollins]

Question please ...

The Side Wall, Broadband Panels:

What is the correct height to hang them at ?

Should they hang centered on the Monitor center ?

I wonder, because most time in the room is spent sitting [if that even matters]

Thanks for any clarification.

[RJHollins]

Ok ... bit of an update. Thanks to feeling better.

A few days ago, I disassembled my downstairs Control Room ...

Today, my Brother and his Son came over, and helped move most everything upstairs or to the garage temporarily.

We got the side wall furring strips mounted, and then brought in the corner triangle shelfs that hold the 'chunky corner' bass traps.
I've loaded the 8' bins with my triangle rigid isolation and installed the facing cover.

This evening I did more room dimension measurements [dbl checking], and then brought in the first 2 cinder blocks to get them into position and aim.

Lots of bending down today .... had to stop. Got a good start considering.

I cancelled my Therapy session for Mon, as I need all the time to get this Room up and running. [it's been well over a year since ... so yes, nearly certifiable. [I'll see him Thurs anyway].

I have some pictures that I'll get posted here showing what we have.

side note: The whole family is very happy for me getting this Room upstairs. [so am I]. I just hope I can bring the Room under control in a
good way.

Thank-you Glenn !

RJH

[RJHollins]

Assembling continues ...

Did a general placement of the Main Monitors [side wall treatment temp sitting on the floor], and got to power up the Speakers for a general test.

As anticipated, there are some 'strangeness' that should improve with side and back treatment properly placed.

Something happy about ... I was playing a Track [Bruno Mars - 24 Caret] at around 83dB SPL ... Outside the front door, could hear the Music ... but when I went around to the side of the house where the window is ...

..... I could barely hear the music !!!!



That was a pleasant surprise ... last thing I wanted was any possible noise issue with neighbors at 2 in the morning

Looking to get other monitors in position ... waiting on 2 orders of Sorbathane to come in soon for them.

Slowly .... it's coming together.

[RJHollins]

Some of the 'construction' photos from my Cloud.

I wanted to have the 'chunky corner traps' housed in a corner shelf design. They are 2'x2'x8'

Since they are a 'skeletal' design, I wrapped the interior with Batten material.

I used a sheer material for the cover panel

Over the cover frame

As it turned out, I had to split the frame covering into 2 sections [halves]. With a support from the bottom half rear, and used 'barrel' locks
on the sides of the 2 frames to lock them in place together.
[It was my 'alpha' design ... and sometimes I need to modify

Testing the design with a few ridged triangles placed.

To hold the cover panels in place, I used heavy-duty velcro connections

After disassembling the previous Room ... everything was to move upstairs.

Placing treatment in the new, smaller Room.

As I need to get up and running as quickly as possible, the alternate monitors were going on a modify shelf.

Still assembling, a quick snapshot of the progress

And to see/hear if this was, or wasn't, a total waste of time and effort ... had to run some Test Sessions

I think .... pleasantly surprised at how this Room is responding. I'm rather shocked actually.

I'll have more pics ... but

There was some Low End buildup happening from behind my left ear [where that shallow wall is]

I have a panel in place ... but, earlier last year I started playing with a Tube Trap design after watching a demonstration lecture by the designer of the concept [i think] ... and then saw a couple online videos of attempts by others to reverse engineer.

Personally ... I didn't think they got it right ... so I did my design around what I heard from the demonstration video [though the
Engineer never really said how it was done ... He inadvertently gave sonic clues when he voice tested the absorption and the reflections.
It's a split design with one side 'closed', the other 'open'.

This was just a test idea ... but I was impressed by the results. [I used 12" diameter concrete form tubes, 4' tall].

When I get the pics, I'll post some of the build details ... somewhere on the Cloud the build process exists ... somewhere.

That's the update for the moment ... there is still plenty to do ...

I did do a listen test, from the outside window to check for sound escaping the window ... used a heavy bass/kick track ... again ...
pleasantly surprised ... very little bleed through. wow.

Other tests .... listening to an early Diane Krall recording [Temptation], acoustic jazz/r&b .... the stage imagery ... very, very nice.

And a Burno Mars track that just kicks ... tight and punchy ... and the Top end has just enough to warn going beyond that.

The over Room is quite dry ... which I'm use to ... and kinda prefer.

Listening to tracks I had Mastered in the previous Room have translated to this Room exceptionally well. [weww]

As said ... still more to do, as well as a shootout ...

But first ... up to this point ... GLENN ... you are AMAZING ! I tried to apply everything you taught me from my very first build.
What a great Education ... and it has allowed me to transform these [challenging rooms] into ones that Work !

Sincerely ...... Thank-You Glenn


I should also add that the entire family supports this 'relocation' to the upstairs ... and they are stunned by the result.

As for the vertigo ... I'm still going to rehab ... but the multi-issues I had are beginning to correct. but I say
that with cautious optimism.

That's all the News that fit to print .... until the next progress report.

AGGH ... I don't know why many of the pics are sideways ... vertigo ?!?!

[gullfo]

no worries - our heads can turn 90 degrees to accommodate nice work!

[RJHollins]

OK .... now for the scary stuff.

The first REW shoot of the room.

Haven't used REW in quite some time. Had the Mic [pointing UPward] using ECM8000-CS cal file.

Definitely see [and hear] issues.

Very much appreciate the Experts evaluation/recommendations.

Thank-you

2022 Den CntrlRm-1.mdat

(3.94 MiB) Downloaded 445 times

2022 Den CntrlRm-1.mdat

(3.94 MiB) Downloaded 445 times

[RJHollins]

2. REW question.

How can we accurately measure [in Real Time] the SPL level between the Left and Right Monitors ?

In other words, I have Monitor Level Outputs on each Monitor. I need to match each one to the same Output Level, but I need to be able
to see that Output Level in Realtime as I adjust Output on the back of the Monitor themselves.
How would I do that with REW ?

thanks again !

[gullfo]

yes you can run single tones and sweeps and noise in REW and move things around as you watch

[RJHollins]

Thanks Glenn ...

I've also started reading your BLOG section on your Website. Wow ... lots of important information. Thank-you.

[RJHollins]

OK ... still doing some Room Analysis ...

However, I am still a novice when working with REW, and could really use some insight as to 1st set of Issues to deal with.

When I fisrt look at the SPL/Phase display, I see at least 2 troughs. One at 85 Hz, the other at 402 Hz.
There are also several 'bumps': 54, 127, 561 Hz.

The other displays [just as important], are difficult for me to interpret and relate to what I have laid out in the Room.

Any enlightenment would be graciously accepted ...

note: as yet, the are NO ceiling treatment. I am still in Vertigo battle, so no looking up, and no ladders for me.

Again ... THANKS !

RJHollins [Up All Nite Studio]

[gullfo]

so the 85hz is likely the ceiling but could be SBIR - which you would mostly see when moving speakers etc. the bumps - depending - can be trimmed slightly using EQ to reduce the energy. you cannot boost into a null however...

[RJHollins]

Source of the post so the 85hz is likely the ceiling but could be SBIR - which you would mostly see when moving speakers etc. the bumps - depending - can be trimmed slightly using EQ to reduce the energy. you cannot boost into a null however...

For this size room ... I don't see much in the way of moving the main monitors around ... and their height is correct.

But first ... something else of a question has surfaced ... the Mic position when shooting.

I have the ECM8000 cal mic that I bought when purchasing the SonarWorks REF 4 system [because the Mic came with its custom CAL file - serial# based].

What I've not figured is, if the Mic [with cal] should be pointed straight ahead ... or pointed toward the ceiling ? [or at a 30 degree angle] ... I'm getting conflicting info

The Sonarworks website says:

SoundID Reference Measurement Microphone with XLR connection
Microphone calibration file for 30° off-axis measurements in .swmic format (Sonarworks software native format) to be used with SoundID Reference
Microphone calibration file for 0° on-axis measurements in .txt format for third-party use.

So if using REW ... and with the TXT format Cal ... how should I point da mic !

2. Regarding the likely Ceiling issue. So, no Clouds as yet ... but wasn't there a way to take a board or 2'x4' panel and hold it above the Mic position to see is things like 85 Hz are affected ?? Do I remember something like this? or a figment of the mind

Last, but not least.

There is a Guy on GS that has posted a procedure, using REW, to make a Correction IR for a free app called rePhase.
I watched the 5 short videos he posted for his Method 2. It's a bit involved ... but nonetheless, quite interesting. [He's not a fan of Sonarworks sound results .... can't say I was either].

But before I'd even start on trying this, I want to get the physical treatment completed. But to do that, I need to ask:

Is there anything that You [or whomever] see in this initial Shoot that exposes an issue I should be focused on ?

As we know, this Room is not ideal ... and what little I learned of REW's different displays ... well ... I more, less forgotten [actually more].

3. I'd like to follow up with a couple questions on these Ceiling clouds at the right time, If I may ... I'm not going to be able to experiment with that like before. Basically having to hire in 2 carpenters to install them .... and they will likely know less about acoustic treatment ... or even care to be truthful ... but that is to come.

First ... I need to be certain I'm measuring correctly.

Thank-you again !