Greetings from near Seattle!

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norg
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#1

Postby norg » Mon, 2025-Feb-17, 23:47

Long overdue post considering how long I've been lurking here and at John's (rest his soul) old site.

Umm, hi! I'm George, I live near Seattle which is in the north west part of the United States in a state called Washington - short driving distance away from the much more polite Canadians - and have been involved in audio engineering, recording, mixing, voiceover, and session work for a couple dozen years now.

When we moved to this house, my five year plan was to build a multi room recording studio in the decently large detached garage here. That was ten years ago. :roll: Many of you are familiar with the story of life, kids, work, etc all getting in the way.

Those things are still a bit in the way. But a recent natural disaster storm here kinda lit a fire in my keester to start to more actively pursue the plan. With my wife's approval. Without that, this post doesn't exist. :lol:

To that end and to get back up and running temporarily in one of the rooms that needs to have all the drywall removed due to water taken on from storm damage, I'm going to repurpose that room inside out (originally inspired by a studio in Burbank, CA designed by John with inside out everything, reaffirmed by Stuarts inside out ceiling post). Once all the drywall is fully removed I'll start the REW process in the room completely barren, then again after I've done the stuffing. For my purposes right now, sound isolation is not too much of a concern either in or out. The volume i mix at is not blistering and I have a separate vocal booth for when isolation is needed. My goal is to tune the space to be more pleasant/accurate to mix and master in. Isolation will come down the road when it's time for things like a live/drum room. Once the drywall is down, I'll start a thread in design with some space measurements and REW results.

I did have one question for anyone who can remember this from the old forum. One of the studios constructed had a massive steel I-beam running right through the outer leaf shell building and was visible inside the inner leaf rooms. They somehow managed to decouple it from transmitting sound to the outside and I haven't been able to find references to it anywhere. If anyone can recall that and has suggestions for how that was done, it'll be relevant later when it comes to design. My building has two fairly large collar ties that a contractor is pretty sure should not be tweaked so while scheming I wanted to try to incorporate decoupling ideas along with possible other ways of working around it.

Ok, wall of text done! Thanks so much to all of you for keeping this very niche studio design corner of the Internet alive. Back to reading Rod's book for the hundredth time...

-= george =-



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Starlight
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#2

Postby Starlight » Tue, 2025-Feb-18, 08:05

Hello George and welcome.

norg wrote:Source of the postIsolation will come down the road when it's time for things like a live/drum room.

You come across as knowledgeable enough but just to make doubly sure you understand that isolation and HVAC need to be in the initial plans before you start building because trying to add either later on is a recipe for an expensive, nigh impossible task.

Tearing down is different. Have fun doing it!

I am sure we will enjoy seeing your progress and after all these years I hope your dream studio complex will now happen.



norg
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#3

Postby norg » Tue, 2025-Feb-18, 14:48

Starlight wrote:Source of the post
You come across as knowledgeable enough but just to make doubly sure you understand that isolation and HVAC need to be in the initial plans before you start building because trying to add either later on is a recipe for an expensive, nigh impossible task.

Tearing down is different. Have fun doing it!

I am sure we will enjoy seeing your progress and after all these years I hope your dream studio complex will now happen.


Thank you for the kind words, Starlight! I've really enjoyed reading through your build and have learned quite a bit through that observation. Very cool to see metal studs in action; my parents home was built on metal studs in 1994 and other than one or two age cracks in the paint since then, it's been rock solid and weathered two decent earthquakes.

If there's ANYTHING I've learned in watching everyone else and the things they've learned and/or wish they could do differently, it's making sure that HVAC and isolation are properly accounted for at the -beginning-. Before purchasing a single nail, screw, or "necessary" power tool.

I'm also not foolish enough to assume I know anything in the face of experienced professionals and will never dismiss suggestions and advice outright. I'm insatiably curious and always wanting to learn everything about everything.

I should probably start a thread in the construction area outlining the room renovation. If there's a chance anyone gets inspired by my insanity or someone who knows things has suggestions, it'll be worth it having it all documented.

-= george =-



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gullfo
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#4

Postby gullfo » Tue, 2025-Feb-18, 18:17

the large i-beams weren't necessarily decoupled, just not connected to the exterior walls. i have to do this in large surround mix rooms where the cross span is over 20' and needs to support the interior ceiling joists etc. you'll need to have proper steel columns set into a foundation in order to be stable as well as isolation sway bracing on the overalls supported assemblies.
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NYC-Studio-v011-STRUCTURE 3.jpg



norg
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#5

Postby norg » Tue, 2025-Feb-18, 18:56

Thank so much, Glenn. That definitely makes sense for a large inner room.

The one I'm remembering - at least I think I am - had a massive steel beam as part of the building the studio was built in and couldn't be worked around so it was visible in part of one of the inner rooms. Or I'm hallucinating.



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gullfo
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#6

Postby gullfo » Wed, 2025-Feb-19, 14:46

ah, ok. so in this example - we needed to replace a load bearing beam that was short with a long steel one to support the upper floors. we used a decoupled footer for each of the end and middle post (between the interior walls) and far end into the exterior foundation wall. then wrapped a soffit which was part of the internal rooms (and we also routed the fresh air pipes along the beam as well) so the beam is part of the external structure and wholly separated from the interior rooms. fresh air pipes then decoupled into the rooms and routed via silencer and plenums. hvac provided by cassette style mini splits in the inner room soffits.
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Recording Studio STRUCTURE v006.jpg



norg
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#7

Postby norg » Wed, 2025-Feb-19, 22:17

gullfo wrote:Source of the post ah, ok. so in this example - we needed to replace a load bearing beam that was short with a long steel one to support the upper floors. we used a decoupled footer for each of the end and middle post (between the interior walls) and far end into the exterior foundation wall. then wrapped a soffit which was part of the internal rooms (and we also routed the fresh air pipes along the beam as well) so the beam is part of the external structure and wholly separated from the interior rooms. fresh air pipes then decoupled into the rooms and routed via silencer and plenums. hvac provided by cassette style mini splits in the inner room soffits.

I can't stop staring. It's an absolute work of beauty and genius.



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gullfo
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#8

Postby gullfo » Thu, 2025-Feb-20, 16:37

we sunk the room 2' in a 1930's house in Brooklyn in order to get 10' joist clearance and ultimately a 9'+ interior ceiling. basically we created a bathtub with concrete - decoupled for each room and from the existing foundation and flooring, and the posts are decoupled from those. so in essence - nothing from the house is directly touching the studio rooms. :-) then added some enhancements upstairs and routed audio and digital lines so those spaces could accommodate up to 25 orchestral instrument performers... :-)

ultimately - the backwall is cabinets with hangers, CNC machined frames for the ausbrption units as well as back wall and ceiling scattering devices. still doing some tweaking on the absorption units to get a bit flatter on a couple of spots in the room but overall it's currently in use full time.
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IMG_0935.jpg



norg
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#9

Postby norg » Thu, 2025-Feb-20, 21:46

Good Lloyd. You're killin me, Smalls. :shock:

How big of a basement is it that it can hold so many instrumentalists? The decoupling efforts had to have been massive and from the way it looks right now you must be at a point where you're shaving bits and pieces here and there to finish off the tuning. Couple chairs in the back; how's the listening experience from back there vs the mixing position?



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gullfo
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#10

Postby gullfo » Fri, 2025-Feb-21, 12:50

the room is ±5db in the back. you can get probably 4 or 5 people in there, but the other room (think of it as an isolation room) was designed for both a drummer and for amp needs as well as a separate mix space.



norg
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Greetings from near Seattle!

#11

Postby norg » Sat, 2025-Feb-22, 03:02

The scattering surfaces are incredible. Like a slice out of an Aero candy bar but sonically functional. Were they designed with specific frequencies in mind or more as general diffusion?




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